23 thoughts on “The Annals of the TERF-Wars

  1. Trans activists have added whole new depth and dimension to the fallacy of straw man,not to mention many of the others. Not something to celebrate (understatement).

      1. Gee…and this is coming right around the time of ‘Brigade Awareness Week’, as we were reminded this morning on NPR. More time for the straw man argument to be used, sans any challenge.
        And Bob Doublin …agreed…it is not something to celebrate. Like when a school system is forced to throw away actual science, replacing it with junk science to appease those who have made up same, as well as may have gotten their degrees, from the same place where one turns in ‘Cheerios’ boxtops.
        By the way…something to bring up when someone is called a ‘TERF’: does not the brigade reserve and operate on the ‘right’ to be exclusive on their own, as far as who they consider to be ‘legit’…based on such things as race, religion, if they are taking the cocktail or not, etc? And have they in the main, based this right reservation on some rather strict stereotypes?
        Maybe it is just me, but if a group that is trying or has encroached on others, with the idea that ‘we are just like y’all, just that we need the finest chemicals from New Jersey and to have the final cut to be a part of your tribe’ cannot respect the right[s] of others to not associate with said group, due to their mindset and felonious rep, then it is not hatred against that group. It is that, the group that the brigade wants to aspire to be like, sees through the emperor’s rough rags, that came from a bad thrift shop and while there may be some respect for their right to expression…it is tempered by what has been done in the name of same.

  2. I dropped by to leave two links, and this piece by Jane Clare Jones was going to be one of them! She’s a brilliant writer and all her posts about the transgender absurdity are worth reading.
    The second island of sanity I found today was a statement of principles by an academic named Christopher Reed on what to expect when discussing gender studies with him. A sample:
    “5. Once upon a time, there was a word for people who worked together to dismantle conventional gender roles. That word was “feminist.” Feminism allowed women and men to occupy sexed positions in a wide variety of ways. Vernacular gay and lesbian subcultures also generated a wide array of non-normative gendered positions. None of these was perfect. But they challenged
    legal and medical authorities by creating viable alternatives to conventional forms of masculinity and femininity.
    “6. Authority does not give up easily.”

  3. Why do I keep reading ‘annals’ as ‘anals’ and giggling like a middle-schooler?
    This is unbelievably funny. And even more hysterical because crazy as it sounds there is no exaggeration. Of course no one will believe that, but we’ve all had these conversations with these people. More times than not I’ve told myself that it had to be a troll or a Poe. But they can’t all be trolls! And that thought is terrifying.

    1. It is a very funny piece. Dead on, except for this part:
      “Nascent trans activists: Yes, you should want to fuck us.
      Lesbians: Even if you still have dicks?
      Nascent trans activists: Even if we still have dicks.
      Lesbians: Um yeah, sorry, we don’t do dicks. We’re LESBIANS.”
      I don’t know why (some) straight women make a distinction between men with penises and men without penises. There isn’t a lesbian alive that wants to fuck the hairballs out of a man’s inverted penile groin stoma, much less get her face close to it, and I don’t understand why straight women see a distinction.
      Are straight women sexually attracted to women who have a tube of forearm flesh sewn over their vulva or something? That can’t be right. I just don’t get it!
      (General question, not directed at you specifically Carterabbie!)
      Dear, dear readers with penises: Getting your dick chopped off won’t get you any closer to your fantasy lesbian lifestyle. Not one bit. So don’t bother. Or do what you want, but you can’t say you weren’t warned.

      1. I think a lot of trans-critical people are still dedicated to the idea that there’s such a thing as “true trans”, that getting castrated is a distinction between fake and “real”, and that “true trans” aren’t on board with penis rights activism and are being harmed by it. To that end, they’ll often imply or outright say ridiculous things, such as the idea that lesbians would be interested in a “true trans”.

      2. @Kesher- is that what it is???
        Here’s another post from yesterday following the near identical script, insinuating that lesbians might be interested in men if they would just get the chop [bolding by me]:
        “Recently, there’s been an attempt by parts of the trans movement to reframe some lesbian, gay and bisexual identities as ‘transphobic’, on the grounds that they exclude trans people of the opposite sex. For example, lesbians who refuse to date trans women (in particular, trans women who have penises), gay men who refuse to date trans men (in particular, trans men who have vulvas), and bisexuals who refuse to date trans people (perhaps because they prefer congruence between sex and gender identity in their partners) stand accused of transphobia.”
        From here:

      3. I think you’re right Kesher. Even gender critical people are shocked when I say that trans isn’t a thing that exists. There are no ‘true trans’ because there is no trans. There are only porn-sick autogynephiles, misogynistic women and homophobic gay men. Oh, and a small scattering of assorted self-harmers and gender-trenders. End of.
        I think they’re still trying to play nice, especially with the ‘old school’ trans who were only trying to escape. But see, here’s the thing; no matter whether old school or AGP or demiboy it’s all informed by and sourced in misogyny. Yes even the HSTS who might be a sympathetic figure. Womanhood is not a refuge from the perils of patriarchy. We’re not the dumping ground for those who fail to succeed at masculinity. We have the right to define ourselves apart from men, yes, even from dickless men.
        If we are to deal with this fuckery in any real way we must be honest and speak clearly. Equivocation is never a good plan.

      1. Thank you for saying this carterabbie. It needs repeating over and over. Thank you and everyone else who says it.

  4. I agree with you. And I am hetero, btw.
    I don’t understand anything, anymore. Ally misandry has a new podcast up on YouTube where julie bindel keeps referring to that dude, Jonathon whatshisfuck, the one that is suing all of those women that refused to wax his “ladyballs”, as “she”.
    Julie bindel kept saying things like “SHE has male genetailia” and “SHE has a penis”.
    I don’t understand this. XY is fucking XY. He will ALWAYS be a fucking male. And we are losing because we will not make a United front and stand about this.
    A male is a male. I am not calling him she or her. Dick or no dick.

    1. Ugh. That dude is a pedophile. The end. Even super-pro-trans-supporters should be refusing to support that stain.

      1. And speaking of pedophiles, we can’t refer to males as “she” while demanding that they not be counted in female crime statistics. That’s a male commiting a male crime, and he should be counted in male statistics. We can’t call him “she”.

    2. Its stuff like this that makes me worry where society will be within a few decades.
      Like, your chromosomes and genitalia will be completely irrelevant to your reproductive status. It’ll be an hate crime to say no to transgenders or to to be attracted to someone else…
      I think the “I’ve always been an girl, but I was born in the wrong body” excuse needs to be scientifically proven, because anyone can say or act like that if they’ve practiced enough.

      1. There is an article that I saw today where a right wing politician in Australia has come out as a woman. He is a rabid anti abortion misogynist, and he has figured out that he can openly hate women so long as he claims to be one. He doesn’t care about performing femininity, either, he very much looks like Wilford Brimley and Dave Thomas had a baby.
        Anyway, none of this is an accident. None of this is male government being confused about anything. It’s no coincidence that California just legislated that the corporate boards of large companies must have a specific number of women on them, while almost simultaneously legislating that males can be women.
        Males can now decide that abortion should be illegal, I mean, it’s a woman’s issue, and some of them are women, now. Male government might legislate that all government positions should be 50% allotted to women, and then spend the afternoon deciding among them who is going to be a woman.
        I may be a pessimist. But it wouldn’t surprise me if, in 30 years, there are males, there are “women”, and there are a few front hole havers for breeding and domestic slavery. Andrea Dworkin once said that if males didn’t need us to breed for them, that they would quickly dispose of all of us except for the most fuckable. I knew that she wasn’t being facetious. But I never thought that she was correct, either. So now I wonder.

      2. The sadfunny part is that they’ll cobble studies together and say being trans has a physiological basis. But say, “okay, how about we do this screening before drastic treatment” and they’ll start railing about gatekeeping.
        At this point, I feel like I’m looking more at a religion than another bad “medical” trend. They like to DARVO about how “terfs” are right wing but so much of trans activism is right out of the Christian fundamentalist playbook. It reminds me so much of when creationists tried the Intelligent Design rebranding; start with your “conclusion,” cherrypick a study here or there, throw Occam’s razor in the trash, etc., then pretend it’s the terfs evolutionists who won’t let go of their silly outdated beliefs.

    3. I’ve seen speculation that Julie Bindel is worried about being sued or even prosecuted in the UK for not honoring a TIM’s pronouns. And recent events in the UK bear that out with TRAs using the police and courts to hound Linda Bellos, Venice Allen, and Graham Linehan.

  5. The last line about lesbians not accepting transwomen for sexual purposes is spot on. That will always be the sticking point. Heterosexuals want people with the opposite sex parts, homosexuals want people with the same sex parts. Despite the tendency of transpeople to label this transphobic, it is the normal course of sexual activity for the majority of people.

  6. This is another excellent article from Jane Clare Jones.
    “Gay Rights and Trans Rights – A Compare and Contrast”
    Gay Rights and Trans Rights – A Compare and Contrast
    Another good article here;
    Jane Clare Jones – Eloquently Framing Transactivist Demands.
    “No purported civil rights movement has ever tried to mandate, with such coercive force, how people speak, what they can and can’t believe, and what they must pretend to perceive, all in contravention of what they actually do perceive.” Jane Clare Jones

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