“Presenting” as Female or Male: GLSEN’s Model School District Policy for Children

The following is an excerpt from the Gay Lesbian and Straight Education Network (GLSEN) “Model District Policy for Transgender and Gender Non-Conforming Students”, produced in conjunction with Mara Keisling’s National Center for Trans Equality.
GLSEN:NCTE Model district policy for transgender students- Examples
Full PDF here:
From the GLSEN website:
glsen gender identity fixed and innate

85 thoughts on ““Presenting” as Female or Male: GLSEN’s Model School District Policy for Children

  1. Write your own!
    Example: Devin was assigned male at birth due to his penis and testicles. He was always seen as a boy throughout elementary school due to his penis and testicles. He enjoys doing crafts and sewing with whomever else likes doing those things. He wears his hair in a long ponytail. His shoes are usually sneakers but on occasion he has sported six-inch fake-fur pumps because he says they are “cheeky”. He acknowledges the obvious fact that he is reproductively male but resists social pressure and conditioning to force him into a sex role. He thinks “gender” is a cluster of sex-based stereotypes designed to force females into a subordinate, subhuman, sexualized existence. He does not think it is humorous when jocks dress as cheerleaders because he observes that the jocks are mocking the subordinate social role that females are forced into by male violence. He refuses to present as a sex-stereotype.
    Example: Chris was assigned female at birth due to her reproductive organs. From a young age she fought grooming into a sexist social role. As a child she refused to wear dresses and demanded to have her hair cut short. She expresses herself by playing sports and prefers that her friends call her “C”. She has male friends. She rejects all clothing that sexualizes her or is “cutesy”. She refuses to wear make-up and refuses to shave her body hair, which she calls a “stupid” idea. She dates girls and not boys. She is frequently mistaken as male due to her rejection of sex-based social stereotypes but she blames this on massive entrenched sexism. She refuses to present as a sex-stereotype.
    Example: Terry attended kindergarten and first grade as a girl. In the middle of first grade she (along with her parents) decided she should present as an advanced studies student in science. She wears t-shirts and slacks and skirts. One pair of her sandals are heeled but the other are not. Her hair is short but is growing out. Terry, her parents and administrators have asked her friends and teachers to refer to her as Terri with an “i” because it distinguishes her from another student named Terry and she thinks it looks “cute”. She signs the dot on the last “i” with a little smiley face. Sometimes her friends and teachers make mistakes with the new spelling. She starts using the “y” again when she enters national student science competitions in high school because she believes she has a better chance if judges think she might be a male competitor and using the “i” stereotypes her as a stupid female. Studies show that male entries are judged more favorably. “Presenting” as female handicaps her in the public educational system. She avoids “presenting” as a sex stereotype which infers her behavior, clothing, hairstyle, activities, mannerisms by avoiding being identified as female in competition.

    1. Example: Jyssaylynn was female assigned at birth because she is a part the 49.6% of the world’s population with a pair of XX chromosomes. At the beginning of high school, Jyssaylynn decided to go by the name Jess, because Jess did not identify with such a stupid name with painfully superfluous Ys. Jess prefers that her family, teachers and other students use “your majesty” as a pronoun or modifier instead of “she” or “her”. Your majesty expresses your majesty’s female gender identity through motorcross racing, playing the theremin, and DIY projects. Jess identifies as a female and prefers to express your majesty’s gender identity by wearing ratty sweatpants, pit-stained t-shirts, and hair in an unironic bowl-cut. No matter how shockingly unkempt she appears, she is consistently presenting as a female.

    2. As a child, George’s parents dressed him in the finest dresses, decorated in ruffles and ribbons, lace and frills. As a teenager, George now dresses in frilly lace and expensive silk satins and brocades. He curls his hair daily and ties it back with a velvet ribbon, carefully chosen to match his clothing. His nails are manicured weekly and he wears them at a fashionable length. He wears high heels shoes and silk stockings. His clothes easily cost ten times what his older sisters wear. This makes sense, because he is the heir to the family fortune and title. Although his sisters are older and far more intelligent than he, because they were born without a piece of meat dangling between their legs they have not been granted the rights George fully enjoys. Although George is an inbred dullard (due to his relatives wish to keep the money in the family) even he realizes that no matter how his sisters dress or what they call themselves, they will always be treated as second class citizens.

  2. I like how “gender non-conforming”, something that should be normal and encouraged, is lumped in with transgender. Because we all know if you’re a boy who likes makeup and long hair you MUST want to be a girl.

    1. Or when some women and girls prefer a buzz cut because they don’t want to be bothered with high maintenance hair…because clearly only men and boys are allowed to have short hair.

  3. Do the cheerleaders get to dress up like football players for the day and act like an assholes?

  4. “When the environment makes gender salient, there is a ripple effect on the mind. We start to think of ourselves in terms of our gender, and stereotypes and social expectations become more prominent in the mind. This can change self-perception, alter interests, debilitate or enhance ability, and trigger unintentional discrimination. In other words, the social context influences who you are, how you think and what you do.”
    -Cordelia Fine (Delusions of Gender)
    I thought it was apt.

  5. Example from real life: Chris, born with penis and testicles, ‘presented as male’, taking part in sports such as rugby, football and body-building, entering a conventionally macho career, drinking heavily, fighting, and taunting men he perceived as weaker or less ‘manly’ than himself. He also married, and fathered three children by two different women. In his relationships with women he tended to enforce strict demarcation in how they presented themselves, forbidding them to wear trousers and jeans and requiring them to wear makeup, frilly underwear, etc at all times. He pursued similar stereotyping in his relationship with his children, making his daughter but not his sons do housework and punishing his sons for behaviour he regarded as ‘sissy’. However, he was also pursuing a secret internet interest in ‘lesbianism’ (i.e. lesbianism as presented in online porn), and used his wife’s and his girlfriends’ underwear to masturbate with. When his marriage broke up over his infidelity and the bankruptcy of their jointly-owned business, he criticised his wife for being insufficiently ‘feminine’ and began claiming he would be better at being a woman than she was. In subsequent relationships, he was attracted to women he suspected or hoped to be bisexual, and began to pursue cross-dressing with masturbatory intent, requiring his partners to play along with his fantasy of being a lesbian, although the relationships were seldom satisfying to the women involved. In his late forties, after a second bankruptcy, he began adopting female usernames in online forums, attempting to ‘pass’ as a lesbian. He also began meeting men who identified as female and men who identified as gay and as genderqueer for casual hookups. In his fifties he began to contact former girlfriends using a variety of female pseudonyms and trying to persuade them to meet him again for sex, and possibly also for validation of himself as ‘a woman’.

    1. You just described what’s known as a transvestite. Which is a fetishist. Transexualism is gender identity and relieving dysphoria. It has little to do with sexuality. In fact a a lot of people wind up not being able to have any sex at all.

      1. Go get yourself educated, Hawke, you’re making a fool of yourself here amongst people — WOMEN — who know far more about this subject than you.

  6. WRONG
    “Alexis was assigned female at birth, but she identifies as gender nonconforming. Alexis prefers to express herself and dress like a tomboy, she enjoys playing sports with boys in her class, and she prefers that her friends call her Alex. While Alex currently uses female pronouns, she is questioning her gender identity and is considering transitioning to a male role. Currently, Alex is consistently presenting as female at school, but that will change if she decides to transition.”
    Alexis was born a female, and she has a female reproductive system. I seriously doubt that she identifies as “gender nonconforming”. What age is Alex? Young kids don’t use words like, “I’m gender nonconforming”. Transgender activists use those words to describe people. In real life, 90% of the population doesn’t routinely use words such as “cis”, binary, non-binary, or “assigned at birth”. Alexis is simply a girl who rejects sex based stereotypes. Playing sports does not make Alexis transgender or a boy. Girls can play sports. Twenty years ago, these girls were just called tomboys. Alexis uses female pronouns because she is a female. She will always be female, and has no reason to start using male pronouns. Alex doesn’t need to “present as female” to anyone. The female sex exists in and of itself, and is not a collection of culturally defined stereotypes. If this beautiful female child is lucky, she can escape the transgender brainwashing and “transitioning” (surgery and hormones ) which will mutilate her healthy female body. Alexis needs strong female role models and feminism. She doesn’t need transitioning.
    Alexis be a smart girl and run away from these people.

  7. WRONG
    Sharon and Karen both wear long ponytails, minimal makeup, and a wardrobe that includes t-shirts, jeans, skirts, blouses, sneakers, and heeled sandals. Both identify as female and use female pronouns and other gendered language. Karen, however, was assigned male at birth and her legal name is Calvin. Both consistently present as female at school.
    Sharon (female) and Calvin (male) both wear long ponytails, minimal makeup, and a wardrobe that includes t-shirts, jeans, skirts, blouses, sneakers, and heeled sandals. Sometimes boys can wear clothes that girls wear. It’s okay once in awhile, but if the mother dresses this boy like this all the time, she needs to rethink what she is doing. If the parents have been brainwashed by reading too many trans blogs or websites, she probably believes that her son is “a girl trapped in a boy’s body”, or some other horse sh**. After all the trans indoctrination, they slap a label of trans on this boy, give him a girl’s name, put him in a dress, and die his hair purple like Coy Matthis. In doing so, they can feel secure knowing that they are the most progressive parents on the block.
    Both identify as female, but only Sharon is female. Calvin is not female, and the proper pronoun for Calvin is he or him.
    Sharon has no need to “present as female” because she is female. Calvin can “present as female”, but he is a male.

  8. WRONG
    Juan was named Juanita at birth and was always seen as a tomboy throughout elementary school. Upon the start of middle school, he began to live as a boy and asked everyone to call him “he.” Several months into the school year, after a round of particularly hurtful bullying, for a few days he presented as female and asked people to call him Juanita. After a few days, however, he realized he could not be the Juanita everyone wanted him to be, and he went back to being Juan with male pronouns. Despite the fact that Juan changed his mind for a short period of time, he should still be considered to be consistently presenting as male at school.
    Where did they get the idea that, “Despite the fact that Juan changed his mind for a short period of time, he should still be considered to be consistently presenting as male at school.”
    I don’t see any consistency at all. Moreover, they should stop calling Juanita “he”.
    A female named Juanita, probably with the help of some overly zealous transgender activists,starting calling herself Juan. Juanita fell for the transgender brainwashing and started referring to herself as “he”. Because she is a female, Juanita went back to referring to herself as she. Perhaps Juanita needs to left alone to just be a kid.
    There is another issues that irritates me. What does “presenting as male” and “presenting as female” mean? Male and female is a biological reality. Aren’t they implying that there are certain cultural characteristics (dress, mannerisms, etc.) that society views as proper “masculinity” and “femininity”? A female who rejects traditional sex roles isn’t “presenting as male”. She is just a female who rejects cultural stereotypes forced on her.
    Juanita, run as far away from these people are possible. Don’t let anyone slap a label on you, and be your own person.

    1. “There is another issues that irritates me. What does “presenting as male” and “presenting as female” mean? ”
      Ah this is the MAGICAL way that the internal self-labelled identity becomes magically imprinted on your clothes/hair/activities, so that others can distinguish between a boy who ‘identifies’ as male (but is wearing a dress), and a boy who ‘identifies’ as female, wearing the same dress.
      It’s all in the ‘intention’ and your magical inner identity as far as I can see, so if you INTEND to present as female, and IDENTIFY as female then you will be SEEN as female (except by transphobic feminists). It also has nothing whatsoever to do with stereotyping hairstyles/clothing/activities based on sex cos that would be BAD.
      O, it’s also the MAGICAL thing that I’m obviously missing when I can’t tell the difference between:
      1) a ‘transwoman’ in a bad wig coming into the laydees room
      2) A pervy bloke pretending to be a transwoman coming into the laydees room

      1. The “transabled” (very much including the person featured previously on this website) go on and on about “presenting as a person with disabilities” too, constantly. Their use perhaps gives some insight, I think – there was (the main website they used is offline now, hence the “was”) this idea of maybe not getting the ideal image they want, or looking like the image of the precise disability they imagine themselves to have, but having SOME image of disability. So, maybe the venue you are in won’t allow you to use the wheelchair, maybe there’s some reason you can’t suit up in full braces as you’d like, but you at least (at least!) use a crutch, because that is… “presenting as” a PWD (person with disability), and it simply won’t do (emotionally) to appear to others as able-bodied.
        So, it’s all about shibboleths. Whatever your personal self-image, if you want to be perceived as (and this is ALL ABOUT “being perceived as,” 100% I will bet money) a “girl,” then what are the shibboleths you need to have? Boil it down, what are the signifiers you need to carry around or wear to have someone’s snap judgement hit “girl?”
        …well of course the other word for such things is “stereotypes” but hey! Can’t say that too loudly lest you be called “transphobic.”
        So start from there, then they realize, oh, but there’s some people who carry those shibboleths as we see them but that don’t identify as us, okay, well, we’ll put some language to acknowledge them too, so, the key is to have the signifier and ALSO have the “identity feels.” Which somehow bystanders are supposed to be able to feel the sincerity through the air. Yeah. That’s the ticket.
        Magical indeed.
        Meanwhile I have a friend whose son likes to wear pink (and occasionally skirts) and has long hair, he’s elementary aged and is 100% a boy, he gets “misgendered” from time to time but just corrects people “no, I’m a boy actually” but what really annoys him (or his family) is when people jump to the “oh but maybe he’s trans?” language. No, he’s not trans. He’s a boy who likes to wear pink and has long hair.

  9. “It is important to note that federal law, specifically Title IX, prohibits sexual harassment and discrimination based on gender or sex stereotypes in every jurisdiction. While Title IX does not specifically use the terms “transgender” or “gender identity or expression,” these protections can often be successfully employed to protect transgender and gender nonconforming students from bullying, harassment, and discrimination. ”
    What the f*** is going on with this? Title IX is for FEMALES. Transgender co-opts everything that they touch. It would be more accurate to state that transgender activists will all but destroy women’s sports.

    1. No kidding. Now add some more to it – say the family (and the kid, almost as an afterthought) decide the kid will transition when the kid is in elementary, maybe even early elementary because hey! groundbreaking, and the kid goes along with it, maybe due to some honest momentary feelings, and now mom has gotten the family on TV, this has hit the media, the kid is a mini-celebrity in certain circles, carrying the flag for the Trans! Movement! and isn’t this grand, the kid will be so lucky, to transition before puberty and never have any of those icky male secondary sexual characteristics getting in the way of passing! So lucky!
      …and then some years pass, and the kid is thinking, what, what have I gotten into, I’m not sure about this, but hey, I can’t let my parents down, I can’t let the movement down, I’m on camera a whole TWO YEARS AGO (which is FOREVER, right? Because I’m 9 years old) saying all this stuff, and there’s just no WAY I can back down now, all these people will be so disappointed. Because 2 years is forever. 10 years I can’t even imagine such a long time that’s like from before I can even remember, I wasn’t even born yet. Surely this moment is forever. So okay, I’ll play along.
      …so what in 20 years? When I’m 29 and my friends are having kids and just generally moving on?

  10. I appreciate the humor at this stupidity, but this is yet another organization that was supposed to be about gay and lesbian kids, that instead is completely derailed by this bullshit. Oh, that must be because gay and lesbian kids are doing just fine now, right? How fucking stupid do you have to be to miss the point that claiming that a 6-year-old girl who “looks” and “acts” like gender: boy really IS gender: boy means the EXACT OPPOSITE of acceptance of a gender non-conforming GIRL who is likely to grow up to be a LESBIAN. Further, what about the gender non-conforming girl who grows up to be heterosexual? What is it about that awesome world where girls and women can be themselves, and not stereotypes, that scares these ignorant assholes so much that they are trying to destroy it starting with very young children???
    I am so fucking pissed off at this utter stupidity because it is CHILDREN who are going to further suffer because of it.

  11. I have a friend whose child (born male) recently told her “mom, you have two daughters. you should call me ‘she’. I’m Bella.” The kid is seven, and has been wearing dresses since permitted the choice. My friend says this change is a long time coming. what advice do you have for her? is her child deliberately involved in trans-deception? what might be going on?

    1. for what it’s worth – there’s no history of abuse, the family is not at all rigidly enforcing of the gender binary – it just sort of happened over time. and my friend is a wreck and feels like there’s a lot of mother-blame on her. I’d like to help my friend if I could.

      1. WADR, you do NOT know that there is no history of abuse. You have no way of knowing. Even if you are fairly certain the parents have not abused this child, you don’t know who else might have.
        Not that there’s abuse in every situation like this. But I do think that at the very least, premature sexualization or overexposure to sexualized materials plays a big role in a lot of this “trans kids” trend.

    2. Wearing dresses doesn’t make a boy a girl. Most girls, unless extremely rewarded as a means to show off the parents, do not want to wear dresses. Recently someone insisted I read an article about a very young boy who “definitely” was really a girl and knew he was. I asked how, and was told that he likes dresses and long hair. That’s not being a girl. It’s like asking men why they think they are women and they can’t come up with one reason that sounds like a real woman.
      So yes, it’s trans cult influence. She should keep talking to him about why he’s saying this and what it means. Maybe he’s a gay boy who’s really drawn to being a drag queen type. He can play with it all he wants but it’s not fair for him to say he’s a girl when he isn’t.
      We can go so many directions with this. Little boys will fixate on many things. Some want to pretend to be space monsters or mythical characters. Some white boys become obsessed with the media appropriation and caricaturizing of Native American culture, and say they really are Indians. They aren’t and it’s offensive of them to say they are. But being female counts for nothing so boys aren’t told it’s wrong and oppressive to say they are girls. They are just coddled and become even more narcissistic and dangerous.
      It’s not your friend’s fault. Who knows what the influences are in the media and elsewhere. Boys in drag are popular…

    3. By the time you’re seven, you’ve already had a hell of a lot of exposure to the world outside your home, with everything that goes along with that. Kids spend half their waking lives in school for nine months out of the year, more if they go to summer school, away from their family’s influence. Most of this time they spend in the company of other children, who can be extremely rigid about policing sex roles. The adults in charge are usually too overextended to provide more than minimal supervision, and in many cases may see no problem with kids gender-policing other kids — in fact, they may encourage it or even join in.
      So the boy in question may have been hearing people say all kinds of things about him for the last three years or longer (kindergarten, first grade, second grade, maybe pre-school; not long for an adult, but for a kid, half his life, an eternity) without his parents even knowing about it. Maybe someone told him that his fondness for dresses (and maybe for conventionally “girly” toys and activities) means he IS a girl, and he’s taken it literally. Possibly he’s intuited that some of the adults at his school are actually more comfortable with the idea of a boy who’s really a girl inside (a mistake, in other words, and an object either of pity, or of super-cool progressive diversity-celebrating tolerance), than a boy who simply rejects conventional boy stuff.
      If that were my kid, I’d quadruple check what was going on at the school (although that’s easier said than done.) I would be on red alert for school psychologists trying to push the trans idea, and I would make damn sure no discussions were taking place behind my back. I’d make let his teachers knew my position, in no uncertain terms: he has my complete support in wearing dresses, (as long as they’re tasteful), and in being as non-stereotypical as he wants, but he is to be referred to by his given name and with the correct pronouns, and he is to use the boys’ bathroom, no matter what he is wearing. If the other boys have a problem with that, the teachers can explain to them that a boy in a skirt is still a boy, just like a girl in pants is still a girl.
      Finally, I’d send him to karate class, and tell him not to start any fights, but to fight back and win if anyone attacks him physically. I know that last will be distasteful to many, but I honestly think it’s preferable to telling the kid to wait for help from the “responsible adults” — help that 99% of the time will never come.
      Also, Bella??? Does he hang out with girls who’ve read the Twilight books? That would worry me just a bit, too. I’d encourage him to spend more time with the Hunger Games fans.

      1. food for thought. as far as I know, the family has homeschooled both their kids since early childhood (eclectic “hippie” unschoolers – not christian fundamentalists). they’ve done homeschool co-ops with other children, so they don’t lack socialization. I’m pretty sure there are other long-haired, dress-wearing boys in their co-op community.
        I am appreciative of the perspective, and I thank you for your time. I’m still not sure what I can do to help my friend, or what to do when we have play dates. I think the worst thing to do would be to abandon her when she may already feel overwhelmed and alone.

      2. @medusa mama: Obviously, I don’t know the people involved, or their circle of friends. I do have this observation about liberals and hippies, though — they tend to be fine with kids mixing it up a bit, being experimental, etc., but much less so with them flat-out refusing a gender role. So it may well be okay for the boys to put on a dress once in a while (it’s creative! individualistic! it shows they’re secure in their boyhood!), but maybe not so okay for a boy just not to want to be stereotypically masculine at all, ever.
        In kind of the same way, it was fine for girls to wear jeans and cowboy boots once in a while when I was growing up, as long as you also wore a dress once in a while. If you never, ever wore a dress, or wanted to, that was considered a problem. So again, I’m just guessing, but it might be that the boy in question has latched onto the idea that he’s really a girl because it provides him with an out. All kinds of retrograde ideas lurk in the hearts of liberals, and come out of the woodwork in full force when they have kids.

  12. That last example really reminded of my high school days. I can remember when we were allowed to “dress” like the opposite sex for a day during our spirit week. My school put a stop to it by the time I was a junior and senior.

  13. How anyone could read this nonsense and not see the insanity of trans bullshit is beyond me. You’re all fucking nuts and belong in a mental institution.

  14. This makes crystal clear, the rest of us STUCK with the daft concept of inflexible and fixed and innate ‘gender identity’ for the sake of trans. All the tomboys and sissies to go under the bus……….
    What about ‘presenting as human’? Not an option here in trans fantasy land. Or presenting as a child………
    Or just BEING a child, and leaving ‘presenting’ as some adult fascination.
    Plus explain to me please how something can both be ‘innate’ yet not ‘established’ until age four? Alternative hypotheses not considered here, a certainty about gender that is NOT what you actually find in the scientific literature.
    O, and NEVER actually mentions biological sex, just the weasly ‘assigned fe/male at birth’, as if it were some lottery, rather than simple biological fact……………………
    “Gay Lesbian and Straight Education Network” — who are these idiots? Trans in disguise, since despite the push to get ‘trans’ into every acronym, it is MISSING from this one? Or is it just the ole trans trope that THE REST of us cissies need to be EDUMACATED about trans, and it’s their job to try and get the rest of us to absorb their bullshit. Trans again trying to use anti-homophobia and anti-sexism to get their trans message across, and ignoring the fact they are mutually exclusive.

  15. “Presenting” makes me think of mandrills. You know, like, a monkey presenting its colorful rear end to signify sexuality to other monkeys. Pre-sexual children do not “present” as anything. They are just kids. They play, they pretend, they grow…they are innocent. They are not in the business of primping up their sexual characteristics to “present” for the sex they wish to attract. Also, they don’t name themselves, and they don’t buy their own clothes and gear. If a kid is somehow eccentric in those departments, there has to be adult collusion. This whole trend REEKS of the oversexualization of young people to me. A combination of MtT perverts who see dollar signs and “respectability” in the innocent forms of kids who can be molded and used as poster objects, and Munchausen’s-suffering delusional fucked up moms, mostly. With a lot of help from idiotic blank-brained “well meaning liberal” social worker and school administrator types.

  16. Liberal/hippie parents sadly can be the most vicious to their children deciding to be Lesbian or gay. Remember how Cher never accepted Chastity as a Lesbian? She seems a lot happier now that her girl is pretending to be a man. A friend of mine came out to her liberal parents at 12 and was put on psychiatric drugs which has permanently affected her serotonin so she can’t get off them without excruciating physical pain and depression.
    So much of this saying the child is transgender is also Munchausen By Proxy. The parents love the attention. But the harm is forever.
    And so is the harm to us, because I’m seeing women who are clearly opposed to adult men claiming to be women, but who are convinced no little boy would claim to be a girl if it wasn’t true — even though the boy does not sound like he knows what a girl is other than male stereotypes.

  17. Hey. I’m trans and I don’t see how I fit into your narrative. I don’t “identify” as female (whatever that means) and I think gender is dangerous. For as long as I can remember, my body has felt wrong. My genitalia in particular. At the age of 3, I attempted to remove my penis with a letter opener and was admitted to the er.
    This did not have any social cause. In fact, I didn’t know the biological differences between men and women at the time. I never once said I “wanted to be female,” only that I “wanted my penis gone because it doesn’t feel like what should be there.” I was not aware at the time that women do not have penises, so I did not conflate my hatred for my body to any desire for social “femininity”.
    I, too, think gender is a dumb concept. Transsexuality was never and will never be related to gender for me.
    I have a theory that will both offend and satisfy both sides: gender isn’t real, but physical mapping of the body across SEX lines is. Essentially, people can be born feeling like they should have the body of the opposite sex, but they are not born identifying as a gender. It’s a purely physical sensation.
    Where does that leave the gender spectrum? Here is where I cease offending radfems and start offending other transsexuals:
    I think varying gender identity is a coping mechanism created by the mind to attempt to give the purely physical difference in body mapping a deeper meaning and fit it into a larger narrative.
    Is everyone offended now? Good. That’s my theory.

    1. “My narrative”? What is my narrative?
      Btw responding to the “speshul snowflake narratives” of you guys is as interesting and challenging as swatting a fly stuck in a spider web.
      If you feel the need to chop off an appendage absent all sexual or social identity issues your “narrative” would fall under body dysphoria, body dysmorphia, or Body Integrity Disorder (BID) Body Integrity Identity Disorder (BIID). If such a thing exists. People with BID/BIID/Body Dysphoria often claim their condition is neurally mapped absent all socialization (like reverse phantom limb syndrome) except: neural body maps are self-correcting, which is why phantom limb syndrome self-resolves when the neural map readjusts itself. Of course most individuals with “BIID” are men who have a sexual amputation fetish. Nearly all of those who have an obsessive compulsion to disable themselves pursue disabilities which are socially recognized. I have never seen a single person with BID desire a missing third toe, or thyroid cancer, or a large “in situ” benign tumor draped discretely over their lower back.
      Dudes who simply want to chop off their dicks don’t consider themselves trans. http://gendertrender.wordpress.com/2011/02/13/male-to-eunuch-asexuality-and-gender-nullification/ But YOU do. Which means you equate cutting your dick off with a letter-opener with an experience of “womanhood”. (Just as an FYI- it is not.)
      Based purely on your email address (Iwantdicksinmyanus) I’m going to go right on ahead and make the assumption that you are a man whose concerns vis a vis your sexual desires are central to your self-identification. I think that is a fair assumption. Further, I’m going to extrapolate that a “transwoman” whose contact information consists entirely of wanting dicks in his anus, who also equates womanhood with a severed penis, may possibly be operating from a male-centric, gendered definition of females. Many gentlemen (like yourself) regard women as sexualized subhuman “objects” and receptacles for male sexual inhabitation. Some gentleman (like yourself) regard female humanity itself as a non-human abstraction or artifact of your sexual gaze.
      Generally the gentlemen who regard women as non-human sexualized matter that exists solely for their use (and at their leisure) don’t take kindly to women who assert their humanity. So much so that said gentlemen may devote the moments of downtime between internet porn sessions seeking out and hunting down and targeting the very few women who object to their framing. Gosh, it’s a hobby, innit?
      Thank you sir, for sharing the great tragedy of your sexual angst. Oh gosh sir, don’t use that letter opener! Women worldwide stand at attention ready to serve your tragic sexual needs. Or not.

      1. What the hell? I never said cutting off my dick with a letter opener was part of an identity of womanhood. I even said that all people who have a gender identity either have been given one by socialization or created one as a coping mechanism.
        In addition, let me explain why I did it : because I felt a vagina should be there instead. Not for any sexual reasons because I was 3 YEARS OLD, or social reasons because I did not yet know the biological sex difference. At the time, I didn’t even know vaginas existed, but I felt like it was the way it should be. All I knew at 3 was that the penis should not be there and it felt like some sort of opening should be there instead. I did not think anyone on earth had or wanted this opening but me. I thought everyone had a penis and only I hated it.
        I was not and am not attracted to women in any way, nor do I have female sex fantasies. If that were true, why would I want DICKS in my ANUS! Use logic for a moment here…

      2. I didn’t even know vaginas existed and I still wanted what was essentially one.
        And of course most men who want to cut off their dicks don’t consider themselves women. I JUST SAID that aberrant gender identity is a coping mechanism. People cope with aberrant physical mapping differently. Some cope be making it a Fetish, while others normalize it by shoehorning it into a gender theory.
        Please actually read.

      3. “I have a theory that will both offend and satisfy both sides: gender isn’t real, but physical mapping of the body across SEX lines is.”
        So I guess there is no scientific evidence for this? This reminds me of one man on tumblr who said since he identifies as a woman he suffers from “period cramps” (no fucking joke) and tried to explain this with the same “logic”. He said his brain sensed something that should be there but wasn’t but he still feels the pain and blah blah blah.

      4. What argument do you have that I’m not a woman? If you’re going the socialization route, I transitioned at age 4 and never went back. I experienced most of childhood and all of adulthood classified as the female gender by society, much to my chagrin. I still get harassed at my workplace because of my gender every day (after going through 4 jobs with it much worse) and I still am afraid walking home at night. I got frustratingly gendered toys from my primarily female friends every birthday despite being a star wars fan and wanting a damn lightsaber. I was taught primarily how to be quiet and let men speak. I have been beaten, abused, raped, arrested on false prostitution charges (Because I’m a black woman in Orange County, not trans. Fucking cops.) Exactly what differs here if you’re going the socialization route of argument? I got the same shit as the rest.
        I have real-life trans critical friends that tend to settle on “then you’re a woman, but not innately because you’re trans, but because you made yourself one by transitioning so early. That’s dumb of you and you shouldn’t have done it.” which I suppose makes sense.

      5. Oh God, surprise surprise, some guy yammering on endlessly about his wang. I now have a dull headache. “All I knew at 3 was that the penis should not be there and it felt like some sort of opening should be there instead.” Oh lawdy, I guess that’s supposed to prove something? I know, I know, b-b-but he didn’t even know vaginas existed! Riiiiiiight.

      6. Lost in the labyrinthine illogic of it all. I follow the threads of Gallusmag’s insights to find my way out. Keeping my finger on the thread.

    2. Hahahah–a letter opener. How original and authentic. Really these men are stunning. Who in the world believes them? And why do they bother. Do they imagine they can just spew and by some magic they sound less male? So predictable, they just drone on and on making themselves more man with each key stroke—cliché after cliché–“I transitioned at 4,” yeah okay, oh and the list of womanly–scared to walk alone at night and gets harassed” Good god, here he comes his rape fantasy because that’s the money shot as they say. Now take your hard on and move it on down the road. That’s a good and boring boy.

  18. Gallus answered the man brilliantly. “I didn’t even know vaginas existed and I still wanted what was essentially one.” Um that would require a different use of the letter opener a bit lower, but still, what does wanting to cut off your prick have to do with not being male? He wanted a “vagina?” How very male, obsessed with openings. But no thought of a clitoris, labina minora, labia majora?
    The self obsession is also glaringly male. None of these men ever sound remotely like a woman. We don’t even have to see them to know.

    1. ” How very male, obsessed with openings. But no thought of a clitoris, labina minora, labia majora? ”
      Yes! I think you’ve got it there Bev Jo, male obsession with openings (cos then something can get stuck in there, the all-important act!). Whereas I can’t really recall thinking about my vagina that way when I was younger (if I thought about it much at all!). After all, when we were girls MUCH more likely to have noticed that snuggling up to the washing machine on spin cycle felt NICE, than being obsessed with whatever openings we might have. After all, trying to think about this, that isn’t how our genitalia FEEL like on an everyday basis! The clitoris and labia are what I FEEL most of the time, I only feel my vagina as a ‘hole’ when I’ve had a tampon become slightly displaced (and YOU all know exactly what I’m talking about here!). I don’t know what men imagine a vagina feels like, but vagina dentata should tell us something — some sort of gaping, never-filled, bleeding and dangerous rapacious mouth. Or some gaping hole just WAITING to be filled. THAT is the male fantasy, whatever ‘gender’ the male having it claims to be.
      But three-year olds trying to castrate themselves with letter-openers? if true, someone needed to get that kid to a shrink fast, because something very weird/damaging was going on in that kids life! But then again, could just be the usual trans trope of claiming they knew they were a girl at whatever age, and 3-5 seems to be the going age to claim at the moment (i.e as soon as they knew anything). Even though memories this early can be false and implanted just by imagining that you experienced

      1. I’m glad I scrolled down, because I was about to comment that, like you, I have never experienced my female genitalia as an ‘opening,’ and I certainly never thought of it that way as a young child! Whatever sort of ‘neural map’ this dude has doesn’t seem to correspond to the actual female body or the experience/sensation/awareness of having a vagina — it’s another thing entirely.
        Actually, if I knew a young girl who talked about having an ‘opening’, I think I would be worried she was being abused. :/ I don’t know what it means in this case, but it’s disturbing nonetheless.

      2. “Whatever sort of ‘neural map’ this dude has doesn’t seem to correspond to the actual female body or the experience/sensation/awareness of having a vagina — it’s another thing entirely. ”
        Of course we all KNOW that. It’s all about what they imagine a girl feels like or what they imagine female genitalia feele like. And THE most important thing to males about female genitalia, obviously, is their ability to be penetrated. Hence that is what the male gender fantasists get off on, the idea of having a perfect hole. And that is all they getb through surgery — a perfect fuck hole (that however they have to keep dilating to try and keep the damn thing open!).
        Hence the chant at that infamous parade from trans land — we’re holes come fuck with us. THAT if what they think women are, fuckholes — like all other males so no surprise there!

  19. Were you born with a Y chromosome? If yes, then you are male.
    That is the argument I have that you’re not a woman. A woman is an adult female. You have a Y chromosome. Females do not have those.
    We are all aware of intersex here so don’t bother explaining that to us.
    In humans, biological sex is determined by five factors present at birth:
    -the number and type of sex chromosomes;
    -the type of gonads—ovaries or testicles;
    -the sex hormones,
    -the internal reproductive anatomy (such as the uterus in females), and
    -the external genitalia.
    There are instances (Swyer syndrome) where a person with a Y can be “made” (using hormone treatment) to develop as a sterile female. However, I would not class it as truly female as it develops from a faulty Y not producing androgen hormones sufficient for male development. Underdeveloped male or, the preferred term, intersex.
    Also, a three year old cutting at their penis is fucking hair raising:
    “At this age, your preschooler still hasn’t developed much impulse control. If he feels something, he’s likely to act on it.”
    “Though your 3-year-old is beginning to understand the emotions he’s feeling, he still has very little control over them.”
    At 3-5, you’re still a developing human with very little control over your emotions. The fact that your parents (or caregivers) seemed to be okay with you hacking at or hating a body part at that age terrifies me.
    I don’t know you personally so I can’t really say for certain but how do you know you weren’t getting crazy gender box messages from a younger age? “K likes dolls? BAD K! Boys play with trucks and wear blue etc”
    How do you know you’re parents weren’t terrified of having a gay/feminine son but happy about having a straight daughter? How do you know they didn’t just go along with it for whatever reason?
    I can remember being 4 and getting stupid messages from other children.
    “Girls can’t climb trees”, “No, you can’t do X because you’re a girl”
    You don’t think that may have had some influence? Ask most of the people here, they can also remember shit like that. I also remember hating my bits too.
    I was mortified about developing breasts. I hated them and wanted them off. People noticed them and males started acting weird towards me. It was irritating. I’d worked hard to be considered ‘one of the boys’ and then there was this stark visible difference between us now. I hated it. It wasn’t till I was 19 that I realised that breasts are awesome. Some woman are never okay with their bodies so I consider myself fortunate that I can be okay with mine (most of the time).
    Body hatred isn’t unique to trans. There’s industries (dieting, cosmetic surgery etc) built around the fact that we are so indoctrinated to believe we’re somehow wrong. Both males and females cop it. (although, one group gets is waaaaaay more than the other)
    I’m glad you don’t regret whatever you’ve done to genitals and I hope you are a happy and healthy person. Doesn’t make you a female (and by extension, a woman) though.

    1. You failed to understand what dysphoria is. Let me keep it simple for you, with an example. A male takes a shower, when he sees himself his brain freaks because it did not see what it expected triggering dysphoria. The only reason transexuals are even trying to accepted as female or male is due to social factors. As an example I’m a mtf transexual who lives an out lifestyle. I identify as straight female( everyone knows what they are getting into). Men fear we will make them gay, so their reactions are hostile/rude and thus triggering dysphoria. MTF’s are on average incredibly submissive leaving us stuck trying to fill a standard gender role cis-women dont want, yet they still want to keep us from having it.

      1. Nope.
        You hate your penis? Doesn’t make you a woman/female. Women and females do not have (and have never had) penises. Women do not look at their penises and go “a vagina should be there”.
        Just because you have that thought, doesn’t make you a woman. Just because you wear dresses or have sex with men, doesn’t make you a woman.
        Women are not thoughts, clothing, behaviours or brain patterns. Women are females. Females are humans that have female sex organs.
        You have male sex organs. You are male.
        And as for filling a submissive gender role, fucking have at it. Be as submissive as you like. You can dress up and play housewife but you’re not a woman or a female.
        You can identify as a banana if it makes you happy. Doesn’t make you a banana.
        It makes you a sad little man who threatens rape against women.
        You are repulsive and you always will be. Inside and out.

      2. “MTF’s are on average incredibly submissive leaving us stuck trying to fill a standard gender role cis-women dont want, yet they still want to keep us from having it.”
        Right, that apart from the ones who keep on with the death and rape threats then…………………..
        Although half a point for admitting the the traditional female gender role is submissive. But just because you guys get off on your sub-dom fantasies, doesn’t mean we have to AGREE with you by naming you as women — that would after all be insulting to those women that you yourself admit DON’T WANT to be submissive. It’s not the role, adopt whatever fucked-up role you wanty, just stop claiming that BY DOING SO you are anything whatsoever to do with female or woman. You’re just a submissibe male, who only LIKES wearing dresses because in male eyes, being feminine is the ultimate in submissiveness (and forced feminity even BETTER, and SAYING you’re really female gets you even harder still…………….).

      3. Reading, let alone reading for comprehension, is clearly not your strong suit, Hawke. Not surprising for someone born and raised on male privilege. You’re not really interested in anything but your own story and your own reflection, you’re a narcissist — it comes through loud and clear in your comments. Then you claim all kinds of things about people you know nothing about because you’re so obsessed with yourself. We’re not your mommies or your therapists. Fuck off.

  20. I’m fairly curious, is this a site full of bigots crusading against a different kind of bigotry? Did you wbw(terfs?) think that antagonizing a particular group wouldnt have fringe elements attacking them in return? I skimmed a couple article’s and saw a lot of writing about how wbw care so much about others. Sadly I just Dont see it. What’s worse the vast majority of you know so little about the average mtf or ftm transexual. You talk about facing challenges as women, and I’ll give there are seriously crappy aspects of it.
    However, none of you have been a transexual or understand anything about it. You think violence and sexual assault is bad for women? Go check the facts, its far worse than for the average women. And entitlements? You WBW might as well be men compared to the average transexual. You think MtF transexuals love their penis? Most would cut it off along with their balls if they could. If you had any clue at all, you would know that transexuals are stuck somewhere in between genders and identify with the closest that fits our brain type.( this is according to the latest science). Body dysphoria is a real condition. Proof of this can be seen in the latest DSM or even in the news with stuff like hand transplants and the up coming HEAVEN surgery planned in Italy.
    I also see you guys talking about how entitled MTF transexuals were before transitioning. Which entitlement were you talking about? Being routinely beaten and expected to suffer in silence for being the girly quiet boy in the corner just trying to make it through the day. Or wait, is it the constant life long mental illness and risk of suicide? Or wait, maybe its all those job oppertunities we might have gotten if we didn’t have crippling social anxiety trying to be male. Oh, I know, it must be losing everything when we do the one thing that stops us from ending it all, due to bigots.
    Do you know what’s the irony of all of this? You WBW created us. Its you irresponsibility, for 9 months you had one fucking job and you failed. And, when your child’s disability became evident later you disowned and shunned them.
    You blame the men and patriarchy and wherever else you can make up. The truth is, you are just as bad as the men. Real transexuals MTF and FTM face challenges and suffering you can’t even begin to understand. We get abused, beaten, raped, assaulted, murdered,( when we arent all killing ourselves to the pain, highest suicide rate compared to all other groups combined.). Yet we get shit on by not only GM’s but also GF’s as well.
    The sooner you guys realize that transexualism isn’t about being a cis-man or cis-women, its about making it through the day without having to suffer dysphoria.

    1. OMG, the tears! O THE HUMANITY!!
      tl;dr version: dude shows up and completely appropriates what many women go through, and then claims it’s so much worse for him. Based on what statistics, I do not know. (Neither does he – and remember, trannies are somehow magically allowed to make up statistics to suit themselves whenever they feel it necessary, and we’re supposed to accept them without question.)
      “You WBW created us. Its you irresponsibility, for 9 months you had one fucking job and you failed.”
      Hoo boy! The instability is strong with this one! And um, if you’re gonna drag science into this (even your pseudo version), you do realize that males have a full 50% responsibility in the creation of a child, right? Right? Hmmm…apparently not.
      tl;dr again: straight up mommy issues, followed by a chaser of pure misogyny. Ho hum.

    2. So, let’s see:
      “Did you wbw(terfs?) think that antagonizing a particular group wouldnt have fringe elements attacking them in return?” – When men attack transpeople, it’s women’s fault
      “I skimmed a couple article’s and saw a lot of writing about how wbw care so much about others.” -We are failing at being women for not caring about men.
      “You WBW might as well be men compared to the average transexual.” – Transexuals are the real women(based on how much violence they receive, because it is the role of women to be abused).
      “…you would know that transexuals are stuck somewhere in between genders and identify with the closest that fits our brain type.” – Woman is a brain type, not a physical reality.
      “Being routinely beaten and expected to suffer in silence for being the girly quiet boy in the corner just trying to make it through the day.” – Girls are supposed to be quiet and sit in the corner(or be beaten, perhaps?).
      “Its you irresponsibility, for 9 months you had one fucking job and you failed. And, when your child’s disability became evident later you disowned and shunned them.” – Wow. Just wow. Mommy didn’t give the transfolk the right hormones, and so all women everywhere are now responsible for making it right.
      “The truth is, you are just as bad as the men.”- And of course, women disagreeing with/not taking care of men is just as bad as rape, murder, and assault.
      Whenever these dudes are given the chance to express their “thoughts”, it’s revealing how much they absolutely despise women.

  21. Good evening shitlord,
    That’s not even good trolling. Might try a more subtle approach.
    “However, none of you have been a transexual or understand anything about it. You think violence and sexual assault is bad for women? Go check the facts, its far worse than for the average women. And entitlements? You WBW might as well be men compared to the average transexual.”
    Yep. You can go fuck yourself. You can go and shove the pointy end of a pineapple up your anus and spin. You are a fucking scumbag for even expressing that opinion. Go back to /r/TheRedPill. You’ll fit in nicely. Those dudes will love you. You’re the perfect ‘woman’. You think actual females are the problem with everything ever.
    YOU (and other males like you) are the problem.
    “Do you know what’s the irony of all of this? You WBW created us. Its you irresponsibility, for 9 months you had one fucking job and you failed. And, when your child’s disability became evident later you disowned and shunned them”
    You are a man. Women are not thoughts in your sad little brain, we are humans with vaginas. Not brain sizes or thoughts or behaviours.
    Women exist and we find you to be a laughable piece of shit.
    Poor wittle baby didn’t get his way so he has to blame his mommy. 🙁
    You are sad little man and you are so disgusting I am not surprised your mother may have rejected you. We are not to blame for your fuck-up of an existence.
    The rest of your comment is stupid and I think you’re trolling. So many tropes thrown out there.
    If not, then I hope to God Gallus got your IP from your comment because you deserve to be shamed.
    Too bad about your penis bro.

    1. bethanyalexandertate–this, to me, is brilliant phrasing: “You are a man. Women are not thoughts in your sad little brain, we are humans with vaginas.”
      “Women are not thoughts.” Right!
      However, here’s yet another example of how trans-women and other men share the same psychology: to all of them, in one way or another, women ARE thoughts. Airy, ethereal, and insubstantial, or mutable and perfectible, like so much wet clay. It’s the Pygmalion myth, each and every time. They all fancy themselves creators of women, but they each express their creative impulses in peculiar ways. Male filmmakers invented film noir and the femme fatale. Religious men invented virgins. Husbands invent good wives and mothers. Pornographers invent whores, and are improving the whore model all the time. Trans “women” invent themselves. And they ask us to–no, they demand that–we go along with it, demand that we sacrifice our existential reality, and that we silence the articulation and analysis of our lives (biological, sexual, social, political), to make room for THEIR creative processes. Same as any other guy. Same, same.

  22. You’re right, Bad Dyke, that Hawkey boy does get all the trans tropes in one post, including one that I’d never seen before but which explains how/why these men hate women SO much — “You WBW created us. Its you irresponsibility, for 9 months you had one fucking job and you failed.”
    He thinks all women gave birth to him and somehow all women owe him? The fact that he is a female-hating mess is women’s fault? Is this what all men who appropriate our identity and try to define us out of existence really think under all their crap? It certainly explains their bizarre sense of having the right to own female identity and women ourselves.
    We had only “one job” — creating this blight on the earth?
    No, not all women reproduce men. Some of us say no. It that too incomprehensible for the narcissist, that female lives do not all revolve around males?
    And for the women who do create males, they are in no way responsible for the any of the evil, rape, torture, murdering that some of these men do. For men so obsessed with themselves, they don’t seem to really be looking in the mirror.

    1. “You WBW created us. Its you irresponsibility, for 9 months you had one fucking job and you failed.”
      Yep, it’s the womb-envy bit, because as much as they hate women, they still can’t quite get rid of us and our useful wombs! That little biological hurdle still blocks the male fantasy of finally having ‘women’ who behave like proper laydees (i.e. the ones they surgically try to construct from males, as opposed to the ones they try to construct psychologically from females, who will INSIST on rejecting the programming!). But hey, give the trans lobby the womb transplants they so envy, and then we’ll just need, presumably, a few actual females to be womb donors…….
      It all just REEKS of maleness, and frankly I find it worse because rather than just plain ole hating us (like many males), it’s the drive to REPLACE and ERADICATE us, or at least SILENCE us if they can’t quite achieve their final aim yet.

      1. Yes, they are the worst of the female-hating males, and the most dangerous by far. I wish we did know how many have attacked girls and women.

      2. “But hey, give the trans lobby the womb transplants they so envy, and then we’ll just need, presumably, a few actual females to be womb donors…….”
        This is interesting. Trans often state that this is a potential for them. Stating that anti-rejection drugs (to avoid rejecting the uterus implant) or stem cell uterus’s would not harm a developing fetus.
        However, trans need to take female hormones to maintain themselves and this has an incredibly deleterious effect on a developing fetus.
        It does not seem at all probable that they will ever achieve their sick fantasy of carrying young. If they manage it, I doubt the offspring will be healthy.

    1. I can’t see a good side really — they are STILL saying that being female and NOT conforming to gender stereotypes is WRONG. So, two paths, either conform (my behaviour as a female is wrong and needs adjusting), or conform by saying my GENDER is wrong (sex change please!). These religious nuts and the trans lobby agree on the first part, just not on the solution.


  24. I don’t understand, if what “defines” a “female” is so arbitrary, then how can one “present as a female” without relying on stereotypes? It seems one can only truly present as themselves, and whether it is perceived as “female” or “male” one way or the other is completely in the eye of the beholder, and is in fact an arcane construct that should in itself be deprecated.

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