Draw your own conclusions. Posted on Reddit.
HELP REQUIRED URGENTLY – re: intersex transgender child / human rights violations & protection order by cas (self.lgbt)
submitted 2 hours ago by GrannyAndP
Prelude of our story to understand details
I am a grandmother with full custody of my grandchild. I have raised the child since 3 months old. the child is now 5.5 years old in senior kindergarten . the child was born with an intersex birth condition known as micro-penis. the child since age 2 has identified as female. In October of 2011 I found myself facing homelessness, due to a slumlord landlord refusing to deal with bedbugs for 8 months. What with not knowing what we would face in entering our local YWCA shelter I made the choice to place the child in to temporary foster care with Family & Children’s Services.
After 2 months during which there was an incident of sexual touching by another child towards the child , I requested & was given care back with the child joining me at the shelter. I agreed to keep Family & Children’s Services in our lives on a voluntary agreement as I found my workers emotional support very helpful.
In March of 2012 we moved into a new home. the child continued to be making comments of being a girl, but I had kept thinking the child was just confused. (I have documented all of the childs comments). – Age 4 – Sept 4 2012 , 1st day of school – At school the teacher asked the child are you a boy or a girl , the child responded saying “I am a boy but i want to be a girl, so today I will be a girl”, as he tried to place his name star onto the girls side of the chalk board.
My worker was familiar with intersex issues as she had trained in the intersex clinic in Toronto & was completely supportive. An appointment was booked to go back to see the pediatric endocrinologist at London Health Scioence Center in December of 2012. Through this period up to September 2013, my social worker continued to be supportive in all of the occurances in our lives. I began to give the child options in clothing & toys. Girls clothing was only worn at home, but the child would race upstairs to change into it as soon as getting home from school. It became a daily struggle to get dressed in the mornings, with the child not wanting to wear boys clothes, begging to wear the girls clothes to school. the child began making comments of wanting his penis to disapeer. We were originally referred to Dr Kenneth Zucker, who in 2 phone conversations with me tried to convince me to take steps backwards with the child (to remove all girls toys & clothes). In discussing unsettling feelings of this with the endocrinologists nurse , she then got us a referral to Dr Joey Bonifacio in Toronto . the child chose a new name of Lianna.
In April of 2012- I spoke to the school principal , regarding switching the childto a different class so he could attend as Lianna , as I felt emotionally it was not in the childs best interest to lead a double life any more what with all the comments . Principal & social worker in a meeting stated it would be easier to do this in september . The Vice Principal , was vocal in his comments to me privately letting me know “I do not agree or approve of what you are doing to the child”.
Over the summer child reverted back to using original name with letter change
Aug 31 2013 I was informed by my social worker during meeting with new Principal , that I would be getting a new worker . She was introduced to me at my home by old worker & was given all details of our story , with old worker commenting on the support offered.
Sept 16 – new worker called & left message saying she needed to speak with me as soon as possible. I called her back in afternoon & she stated she had received some information she needed to discuss with me & that she was coming right over. She first off led me to believe that the school had called her & that the child had made a few comments at school about being a boy, not wanting hairbows and not wanting a certain letter in her name. She then informed me that the child was to no longer wear any girls clothes, or boys clothes, that all clothing needed to be completely gender neutral & not flambouyant. She told me I needed to do this as soon as possible. After school I met with the principal, who informed me that she had not called the worker but that the worker had called her. I reminded her that my dealing with CAS was on a voluntary agreement not a protective order & that she should be reporting any incidences to myself prior to CAS. The principal admitted & apologized for this. That evening I spent 4 hours in a thrift shop attempting to find clothing that could be deemed as neutral. The worker did not speak to the childor to Dr Joey Bonifacio prior to putting down this order. I left a voicemail for the worker asking if CAS had extra funds for this neutral wardrobe she was ordering us to do .
Sept 17 – The worker called back & left voicemail stating “I got your message about shopping & the clothes & stuff. We don’t provide funding for that, so you will need to figure out a way to get that if you don’t have any gender neutral stuff. It’s really IMPERATIVE that YOU STOP DRESSING HIM”. Message cut off abruptly so she called & left 2nd message stating ” WE’RE asking that you please stop dressing the childin GIRLY CLOTHES RIGHT AWAY. ITS REALLY IMPORTANT . ITS REALLY URGENT THAT YOU STOP SENDING HIM TO SCHOOL LIKE THAT.”
Now although this is a voluntary agreement at this point I was in fear that this worker was trying to turn this into a protective order & would try to take the childout of my care. Through fear with her intimidation I felt obligated that I had to do this or risk losing my child. I kept these messages on my answering machine.
Sept 18- called human rights legal support center and they told me that since it appears cas is trying to turn this into a protective order it is not discrimination yet and they cant help ? spent time digging in schoolboard website. I found school board policy and lucky #1008 is re the human rights & right to gender identity and expression. I got cas supervisors name & , left voicemail questioning about policy #1008.
I had a meeting with principal again, basically went over all this with her. I reminded her of #1008 ,restated my support of the childand her gender fluidity. She stated she has to follow cas guidelines. She suggested meeting with CAS worker to which I declined stating that I will not meet with her again if at all until after speaking with CAS supervisor.
After the meeting I was standing in the outer office talking to 2 of the childs teachers asking about a coat the child had left at school the day before. the childs Teacher #1 said there was no coat left. Teacher #2 then said yes there was the coat hanging up. Teacher #1 then responded pointedly with “Oh yes thats the one with the PINK COLLAR” looking at the principal as she said this. the child was in the room when this transpired ! It was clear that she was reporting this for the principal to pass on to the CAS worker . I had not bought a new coat, child’s coat was reversible to navy blue, so I simply reversed it but the collar was still showing pink. I could not afford to go buy a full neutral wardrobe.
the child is now going back and forth between saying he is a boy to she is a girl. Singing in the tub in monotone voice “I’m a good girl~ I’m a good boy” over & over. I also left a voice mail for school board superintendant .
Sept 19- the child made a comment to 1 of my friends in a sad voice stating “I am a boy that likes to wear girls clothes and plain clothes.” Dr Joey Bonifacio called , after speaking with me he stated that he believes that the childhas been psychologically traumatized by all of this. I gave him the new workers phone number.
Sept 23 – In morning i found note in Child’s communication book from teacher requesting a set of gender neutral clothes. I kept this page from the communcation book. This morning after 1 week of being forced to wear this gender neutral clothing, the childfought me to get dressed as she did not want to wear these clothes. We were up at 7 am and did not arrive at school until 930 am. It should be noted that since school let out in June , not once have I had the clothing fight in the morning . This afternoon her extra set of girls clothes came home in the knap sack . Email Letter from gender therapist sent to myself and the cas worker.
Sept 24 – Brought letter into the school . Letter clearly states that the child is to choose whatever clothes the child wants. the child has chosen her fanciest flowery rainbow colored dress to wear to school.
Sept 25 – Spoke with Principal regarding the letter. She stated that this does not change anything as far as the school is concerned. She stated that “I don’t believe that anyone here at the school has done anything to psychologically traumatize child ”
Sept 26 – old worker decided to make an unannounced visit to my home. I was out, we had not had any meeting set up for this date. She left her card asking me to call her.
OCT 18 – There still has been no response from either the CAS supervisor , or the school board superintendant. I have now left a voice mail for old worker requesting she put together papers to release me for this voluntary agreement & send them by mail, that I would sign & return .
Oct 29 – I have had no response to any of this up to this date. Today received court summons .. Motion being presented to court on Nov 3 for CAS to put child in foster care , claiming i am mentally unfit / hypochondriac doing actions similar to munchjausen by proxy on child re gender clothes and medical issues .
Have made following calls ….
Lambda Legal office in your region and ask for the Legal Help Desk – National Headquarters 120 Wall Street, 19th Floor New York, NY 10005-3904 t 212-809-8585 f 212-809-0055
called and left message on sept 25 = no response
contacted ivan steele lawyer in toronto ..
referred to nicole nussbaum in london /cant take case/currently working duty council
contacted sherman lawyer in kitchener/ no cas cases accepted
called plflag , referred to The 519
Morgan Chase from The 519 sent list of lawyers …
Susan Ursel, LL.B. ….. CALL HER BACK RE HUMAN RIGHTS … Green & Chercover Toronto, ON (416) 969-3515 sursel@greenchercover.ca www.greenchercover.ca/lp_13.html Susan refers to Martha McCarthy RE FAMILY LAW ASPECT
Leah Neumann Clinical Social Work/Therapist , MSW , RSW , LCSW (226) 777-0951 12 John Street W. Waterloo, Ontario Canada N2L 1A7 (226) 777-0951
left voicemail for assessment
Siobhan Ann
Website http://www.siobhanlaw.com/ Telephone: 1-888-262-6333 , 519-824-2586 Location: King Street West, 7th Floor, Kitchener, Ontario N2G 4W4 – LEFT VOICEMAIL
Allisa Scott (ALEESA = PRONUNCIATION) H.B.A., M.A., M.S.W., R.S.W. http://inclusive-cct.nfshost.com/Trans_Resources_2013.html 519-749-9505
Transgender Law Center’s Legal Information Helpline Danny Kirchoff, Helpline Manager, 415.865.0176 x306 Headquarters (mailing address) 1629 Telegraph Avenue, Suite 400 Oakland, CA 94612
San Francisco (TLC office opens in August, 2013) SF LGBT Center 1800 Market St. San Francisco, CA 94102
phone: 415.865.0176 LEFT MESSAGE
Have called 3 lawyers for KITCHENER WATERLOO area as well as 2 therapists … all of which are LGBT friendly … all of which have left voicemail …
no 1 seems to answer phones any more ???
HELP PLEASE … send email”

15 thoughts on “???

  1. Feel sorry for them both – the kid and his gran – they’ve been treated appallingly by all the authorities who seem more concerned about covering their arses than the welfare of the familiy. What a clusterfuck. Didn’t think micro penis was still viewed as an intersex condition, much less a candidate for reassignment. The gran needs to be given proper information and support, not specious advice about what colour clothes to dress her son in, and insinuations about her parenting ability.
    Would a vagina of ‘abnormal’ dimensions promote such a flurry of panic and hand-wringing? Are flat-chested women deemed intersex or prone to identifying as male? Often laughed at some guys’ facile obsession with cock size but this is ridiculous, and not funny at all…

  2. GM, please approve this post.
    It sounds like the problems started when the new (it’s social workers / services in the UK, I’m assuming it’s something similar there) worker took over the case. It seems like the new worker is enforcing their idea of what the child should do, and not doing what is best for the child, whatever that is. The child seems to want do “girl things” and wear “girl clothes”. Has anyone tried shopping for gender neutral clothes? Especially for 5-7 year olds, they just don’t exist.
    The best thing for this child (in my opinion) seems to be what the original worker was helping do. Support the child in whatever way is needed, you’ll know if you’re doing the right job if they’re happy, and the wrong job if they’re not. Yes, children need boundaries and there will be tantrums at times, but is it just me that think the new worker is the problem here? The grandparent and the school seem to be doing all they can to help and support the child.

  3. Personally, a red flag always appears for me when I read of a child not in the custody of his/her mother. What happened to Mom? How did Granny get custody? What were the circumstances? Was Mom truly abusive/neglectful, or was some other power play involved here?

      1. Maybe, if you assume all grandmothers are 60+, but my sister is law is younger than me and is a grandmother now (I turned 39 in October).

      2. My mom is a grandmother multiple times, in her mid-60s, and an avid Redditor. You never know anymore…

      3. True, Violet Irene. And if that were the only thing that gave me pause, then fine. But it’ just the beginning in this case.

  4. I just skimmed and it seems very odd that this person constantly refers to what would be her grandchild simply by “the child.” No first name or nickname even? And refers to “herself” as “Granny.” I know SO many grandmothers now and not one calls herself “granny.” It just sounds trolly…

  5. This is really weird, and it’s difficult to figure out exactly what is going on. I agree with Bev that there is something about this that sounds off, of just doesn’t sound right. I feel sorry for the grandmother and child. According to the grandmother,
    ” the child was born with an intersex birth condition known as micro-penis. the child since age 2 has identified as female. .”
    How does a 2 year old child “identify as female”?
    If the child really has a disorder of sexual development (intersex), this is a good place to start:
    I didn’t know that this was an actual DSD, but it’s listed in this website. I suggest getting the best medical advice and shy away from gender therapists, or anyone who wants to push a label on this kid. There is no shame in having a body that doesn’t look like other boys. It’s my understanding that these are genetic males. They just have a tiny penis. I’m curious as to how the mother and/or doctors described the boy’s medical condition to him. That is, if he really has a disorder of sexual development.
    This last paragraph is really strange. This last paragraph sure makes it look as if the grandmother could be a tad unhinged. Maybe the old lady is off her rocker. I would love to see the actual papers from CAS, and what they say about the grandmother Is CAS like Child Protective Services, or child welfare?
    “Oct 29 – I have had no response to any of this up to this date. Today received court summons .. Motion being presented to court on Nov 3 for CAS to put child in foster care , claiming i am mentally unfit / hypochondriac doing actions similar to munchjausen by proxy on child re gender clothes and medical issues.”
    “munchjausen by proxy on child re gender clothes and medical issues”….
    gee, that kind of sounds familiar….
    I think of Coy when I hear these words.. According to a triplet blog,http://fourtimesthefun.blogspot.co.uk/2013/02/the-one-where-i-weigh-in-on.html, the mother gave birth to the triplets in a kiddie pool in the living room, and is reported to have taken drugs from Mexico to help her get pregnant.
    *this blog is private now, but I definitely remember reading this from a mother on this blog who knew Kathryn.
    Although the grandmother says the child has an intersex condition, when all else fails, call transgender law center and Lambda Legal office. Granny, this is a 5 year old child. Disorders of sexual development (if the kid really has a DSD) are NOT the same as transgender. Stop calling the Transgender Law Center. Start learning about DSD.
    Transgender Law Center’s Legal Information Helpline Danny Kirchoff, Helpline Manager, 415.865.0176 x306 Headquarters (mailing address) 1629 Telegraph Avenue, Suite 400 Oakland, CA 94612
    My heart goes out to this child.

    1. Speaking of Coy! There’s an article about him in this issue of Rolling Stone magazine. I saw it at the supermarket but didn’t stand and read, and apparently the article on line requires subscription so I’ve not read it.
      The cover has a headline “Boy Or Girl? The fight over the six year old who wants to change gender” and instantly I thought oh, must be Coy because that family is really going out to all the media (as they have in the past for other issues – you’re right about the stuff you remember reading on that blog). And sure enough, yep.
      I’ll have to read it this weekend if it’s the same issue on the rack…

    2. I saw that same blog entry, and what’s more, I saw the original posts from Coy’s mom (they are still up iirc on an old bulletin board). That case screams Munchausen’s by proxy to me. Rolling Stone, eh? Figures…

  6. Comment from LC, left on wrong thread:
    Submitted on 2013/11/07 at 6:00 pm
    Nothing about this story makes sense, and I wonder if these “transgender” children are related to the larger problem parents seem to have lately(two or three decades or so) of setting boundaries. Saw this ridiculous comment on reddit in response to someone who asked a sensible question about why the child was being put in fancy dresses in the first place: “Regarding the dresses and clothing choices only the child knows what they want to wear on any given day.”
    No? The child is five. If the child knows they want to wear a spiderman costume to school(which would not be at all unusual), would that too just be a personal identity choice that must be respected? The grandmother bought those clothes, the grandmother is the one allowing those choices(and probably still helping the child dress), so she is the one responsible for it. Stop blaming children for bad parenting. I used to work in a daycare and once had a parent bring in a screaming child wearing mismatched shoes- both left- and an overly fancy dress, because “that was what she wanted.” She being three years old. Moment after the parent left I changed her shoes and put her in pants. The child threw a fit for 5 minutes, and then was fine the rest of the day. Because, again… three.
    I’m all for giving all children options to do what they want and wear what they want, within reason… but parents are still the ones who draw that line, and create these problems for their kids when they don’t provide limits.
    …That said, sounds like the biggest issue here is that the child is deeply confused about their BIOLOGICAL SEX and what that means in terms of self-expression. I really hope they both get some non-gender-therapist type counseling, and don’t take any of the bad advice from reddit.

  7. My, my, my, look at all the red flags. Either this is total BS A-Z or Granny is coaxing “the child “ if it is even happening at all. Munchausen by proxy—more attention and maybe in this case money seeking behavior. I am betting Granny has about 20 twisted tales of woe to spin for every occasion and every audience. A child can only wear what is available and as they don’t get decide what is bought. They have green coats, yellow coats, it goes beyond pink and blue and what kind of person even dresses a little girl in “little girl” things. Good going Granny. I actually feel sorry for the social workers, school administrators and anyone else that has deal with this women. Taking notes of phone calls is not parenting.

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