The List

The questionnaire
The following is a list written by a detransitioning woman outlining the missing factors in the care they were provided by medical practitioners, advocates, and the trans-supportive community at large.
Much lip service is paid in transgender political lobbying around the difficulties in accessing “care” for transgender people. Yet this “care” is profoundly, singularly  directed towards modalities that proscribe misogynist, heteronormative, and indeed transphobic(!) adherence to sex-based gender roles and the pathologization and medicalization of sex-role nonconformity.
Increasingly, this narrow focus of “care” is being directed towards children as young as 18 months old who are being diagnosed as medically disabled and “gender defective” and are celebrated as such for their “bravery” in the face of developmental sex-role deformity by the mainstream LGBT community as if they were contestants in a queer “special gender olympics” version of Toddlers and Tiaras.

Jazz and Coy: Brave! Gender-disabled version of Toddlers and Tiaras
Jazz and Coy: Brave! Gender-disabled version of Toddlers and Tiaras

What of the individuals like Nathan Verhelst for whom such treatments abysmally fail to diagnose or cure? What treatments are available for gender dysphoric individuals for whom cross-hormone and cosmetic surgical options are medically contraindicated? What “care” is available for those many individuals suffering after “transition”?
When Joel Nowak of Retransition.Org contacted WPATH (the premier medical lobbying group for transgender psychiatric and medical care) regarding resources and information for those who need to discontinue cross-sex hormones for various reasons they were told that WPATH had “no idea”. NO IDEA. “That is a very good question” he was advised. This organization has presented itself as the worldwide cutting-edge authority in medical and therapeutic treatment for transgender individuals for decades, and is recognized as such by legal and medical and governmental agencies globally. Yet they had “no idea” how to advise transgender medical consumers on how to safely desist cross-sex hormone therapy, and “no idea” where to refer such transgender persons.
While continually citing the suicidality, morbidity and psychiatric and medical emergency of gender dysphoria, the carers and advocates for transgender persons- including those of the highest professional, therapeutic, academic, political and activist standing- have decided that care should be confined to those who can (and want to) medically and psychologically tolerate gender normative “treatment” and all other transgenders who suffer from sex or gender dysphoria can literally be damned.
Transgenders who medically detransition, or whose dysphoria is uncured after “treatment” – and the percentage is large- are not only completely rejected from care but are shunned, and even attacked by those claiming to promote care for sex and gender dysphoric (transgender) persons. Supportive medical and therapeutic care for these particular transgenders is considered non-imperative as their distress is deemed inconsequential and their experiences and outcomes disposable.
Below is the list provided by a detransitioning woman (now negotiating medical and social de-transition without care or support, because none exists) listing the elements that she identifies as missing in her pre-transition care.
Sadly, this woman has been subjected to a barrage of harassment and intimidation by individuals (also identifying themselves as transgender) who want to silence any sex or gender dysphoric individuals who share information on gaps in existing care for transgender people.
Anyone who is genuinely concerned about providing care for transgender individuals – perhaps especially families struggling with “transgender children”- would do well to take note of the items on this list.
From her post:

“As someone who views transsexualism as a medical condition, I believe everyone should exhaust other alternatives and transition only as a last resort. That is what I did. The thing is, I didn’t have the resources to utilize that I could envision in a better world. Transition was the best option at the time for me, but I can think of a lot of things that would have allowed me to make a better decision. Some of these things are:

–  Knowledge of the existence of detransition

– Realistic, accurate, and honest information about detransition

–  Visibility of detransitioned folks sharing their story

– Information on alternative options for dealing with dysphoria such as meditation and exercises to re-align my self of self with my body

– Knowledge of radical feminism

– Knowledge of how trauma can influence one’s sense of self

–  Trained, knowledgeable support for my trauma

– Someone to guide me into addressing my trauma, instead of letting me go through therapy thinking it really didn’t affect me in any significant way

– Better role models to look up to who exemplify living confidently as a gender non-conforming woman

– More accurate information on the effects of testosterone

– Honest discussion on the mental effects of testosterone

– Parental support in being gay

– Parental acceptance of my being gender non-conforming

–  Better support by non-parental figures in being gay and gender non-conforming

– Knowledge of how deeply misogyny can affect females

–  Acknowledgement and information about internalized misogyny within the FTM spectrum

“Last resort” is a misleading phrase here. I think virtually all trans folks are in a compromised position where better resources could be available, but are not. Detransition has been entirely taboo to talk about anywhere. It has been dismissed by trans folks and framed as cautionary bullshit coming from transphobic people. That one aspect alone puts anyone considering transition at a significant disadvantage if they are ignorant of the possibility of detransition.

Am I against transition altogether? Until these sorts of support and resources are available to the majority trans people, that question does not apply. We do not live in a world where these things are prerequisite to transition, so how could anyone know if transition would still be necessary if better support and resources were available? Sexual trauma is completely ignored as an influence of transsexuality by most therapists in an effort to be “PC”, and that is appalling.”

Read the rest of her post and more of her thoughts here:
[Bolding by me not the author- GM]

105 thoughts on “The List

  1. If transitioning should be a last result, which this post makes painfully obvious, and knowledge of radical feminism can help people find another path, that makes us a support group for the gender dysphoric, not a hate group. To ignore that simply because we believe WBW have rights is profoundly dishonest.

  2. “Transgenders who medically detransition, or whose dysphoria is uncured after “treatment” – and the percentage is large- are not only completely rejected from care but are shunned, and even attacked by those claiming to promote care for sex and gender dysphoric (transgender) persons. ”
    I can personally attest to that being true.
    Also the other transes will attack you and talk very badly about.
    They will say you were never “real” like them to begin with and that now you’re “just a man” or “genderqueer” or whatever they want to say about you, as if being trans is something objective. So because I stopped taking hormones and doing the medical stuff and believing the trans cult dogma that means I never had (and continue to have) dysphoric feelings? Dysphoria is certainly real; it does not however mean the person is the opposite sex (that whole “brain sex” garbage).
    Ru Paul was right when he said the only difference between a queen and trans is 25k and a good plastic surgeon.

  3. Also the care from the doctors that do trans stuff is messed up too. most of the doctors fetishize trans stuff.
    When I was doing the medical stuff in past I went to Dr. Reed, a known trans specialist/surgeon in miami. This guy would always flirt with me during the appointments and he would even talk shit about the older transes there (saying how they weren’t good like the young ones that he thought were hot). He’d try to feel me up when doing physical examinations, saying things like “you have great legs” , very inappropriate for a doctor. They basically want to make money from manipulating people and they also want to use younger patients as if it’s some sort of fascination with making sex dolls so to say.
    They even go so far as to say that trans stuff is a “medical emergency” that MUST be treated with hormones etc…
    That’s funny though, I stopped taking hormones a year ago to this day….I haven’t died, I’m still going , pretty strong too!

    1. What do you do for your dysphoria?
      One of the worst things about the attacks on detransitioners is that they can’t share their stories and help each other.

      1. Black Iris, if you are interested in hearing about a resource for *female* detransitioners only, please contact me through private message on my tumblr. Some of us are sharing our stories and helping each other.

      2. Moira, will do.
        But I wish there were a website somewhere that had some information anyone could find. It is so easy to get information on how to inject yourself with testosterone, etc. and so hard to find information on how to detransition physically and emotionally.
        I also wish there were something for detransitioning men and men who don’t want to transition, although I realize they have different needs.

      3. Black iris, you’d probably want to contact moira, it’s different for those were ftm then those who were mtf. though there’s overlap if one focused on androgyny rather than sex change stuff and just happened to get sucked in too much into the standard transition stuff via pressure from the community

  4. Perhaps, but to be a support group, radical feminists will need to change the way they talk to and about people with gender dysphoria.
    Right now it is very discouraging that the only people on the left talking about the problems of physical transition are also in an ongoing fight with transgendered people.

    1. You likely mean we should start going along with their beliefs about being the opposite sex. When people experience meltdowns and even get violent when they are addressed or referred to as the sex they actually are, that is not mentally healthy behavior. I don’t see the good in supporting it, though it is quite evident that many trans will refuse to politely engage with people who do not support their delusions.

    2. I am not sure women need to “change” the jury is still out on that. Perhaps if it were presented it as any other condition–bi-polar, OCD, anxiety disorder. Don’t expect it to be more special or more poignant or compelling because it isn’t. That only shows the narcissism, contempt and lack of compassion that Trans holds for other people–all other people. Then they demand compassion because the suffer more than anyone ever known to humanity. There is no such thing as Transition–it is surgical body modification–nothing more. People expect thinking adult women to take plastic surgery seriously? It means nothing. Nobody agreed to play along and they can’t be expected to because reality matters more to people than somebodies fantasy life and delusions. What next for trans make reality a civil rights violation?

    3. In response to the answers to my comment –
      Look, half the people transitioning are born female. Many of them are lesbians. Lots of them are young.
      If you refuse to call them “he” or “men,” you shut down the discussion before you start.
      I also think it’s important to help transwomen. I think the transwomen who harass people are in the minority and everyone else deserves to be treated well.
      However, nobody who is transitioning is going to listen to any discussion of problems with transition and gender in our society if you start the conversation by insulting them.

      1. Men are not women that is the 1st thing and the second and the third. The fourth and fifth is that people do not and can’t be expected to role play or trade their own normal perceptions–oh a dude in a skirt with a hard on over himself for his deluded fetish driven fantasy.

      2. Unfortunately many trans are being considered to think that everything is an insult to them. Even acknowledging their actual birth sex is an insult. What’s really needed is a more open discussion in the mainstream, which is extremely difficult given that questioning trans culture at all is considered as bad as supporting ex-gay camps to the average person. Even though the weeping irony of that is much of transadvocacy is rooted in sexism and homophobia.

    4. I think gender dysphoria is a real condition and people with it deserve quality care and support. I believe “transitioning” is rarely the care that they need.
      But I’m NOT going to put up with the bullshit of someone who says his penis is a female organ and lesbians need to sleep with him or they’re bigots.

  5. Excellent post. We need more research on people with gender dysphoria and the treatments available. We need more options for care.
    We desperately need more research on follow-up care. We know now that suicide rates after transition are still too high (link below). We don’t know what the health care needs are for transitioners after 10 or 20 or more years.
    We also need to know how to meet the needs of people who detransition or retransition. This isn’t just about people who discover that transition didn’t solve their problems; some people will have to go off hormones for medical or financial reasons. All transgender people benefit if we have standards of care for changing hormones and for therapy when that happens.
    And, of course, we need to get more information and support to gender non-conforming people and survivors of abuse so that they have more choices than physical transition.
    About transitioning before going through puberty – we seem to have lost sight of the physical costs of transitioning. It makes you infertile. It can lead to loss of sexual feeling and function. You become dependent for life on medication, like a diabetic.

    1. With respect, I don’t know that this is such a huge, pressing problem that it needs research with all the funding and structure that these would call for. Agreed that the condition is fascinating–anyway, I think it is–but it directly affects a relatively tiny part of the population. What concerns me is the social and legal effects of trans on girls and women, and the growing horror of its effects on children.
      That is why I keep harping on the fact that IT’S A SYMPTOM, STUPID. (I’m talking to you, there, with your dick in your hand.) People need to understand this, and most do not. Trans isn’t even a mental illness of its own–it’s a symptom of underlying psychiatric morbidity. And the question we should be asking is just how far we want to go to accommodate the delusions of mentally ill people.

      1. We do research on types of cancer that affect only a small percentage of people.
        People deserve good health care.
        Please remember also that the people who are experiencing gender dysphoria are disproportionately gay and gender non-conforming.

      2. @BlackIris 2:07 Point taken. Still, trans is a symptom and not a disease. Researching it would be like researching fever. You might learn a lot, but your patients will do better if you treat their pneumonia, strep throat, or whatever actually is causing the fever.

      3. Good health care is not driven by falling shares in hormone stocks and looking for a new non-disease to use them on after women almost en masse refuse to take them owing to their proof of no evidence whatsoever, and serious carcinogenic and other irreparable and irretrievable harm, including fetal deformity. Good health care is not predatory prescribing to buttress one’s career and publishing bullshit studies with no purpose but saving one’s job and and the fundinkg for yhour pharma backed lab and grad students. Good health care does not use a populace as surgeon training for skill building for legitimate surgery, and good health does not deliver health care to order, but for real, valid disease treatment.

  6. I have another question:
    Does the care include helping children who suffer from the damages of puberty blocking drugs? Dealing with disabilities and/ or health damage might be expensive. I mean trans activists are quick when it comes to giving children drugs – but what about the consequences? Who will support the parents and the children?

    1. The main side effect of puberty blockers is that if you go on to opposite sex hormones without going through puberty you will be infertile. This is a decision that will probably have to be made before you are 18.
      The other big concern about puberty blockers is that many kids who are gender dysphoric will change their minds when they go through puberty. It is possible that not experiencing puberty will mean that they are more likely to go forward with physical transition. This might then mean SRS and the possibility of losing sexual function and hormones as a life-long drug to be injected. However, it would also mean less surgery than some trans people who have gone through later on end up doing – masectomies, facial surgery, hair removal.
      Puberty blocking drugs have been used on kids who go into early puberty and I don’t think there are any known side effects. I don’t know what studies have been done.

      1. I just don’t understand! How can people not know about the dangers of puberty blocking drugs? Lupron is the best example. Just google it! It takes a few seconds. Never thought about how it might be dangerous? This makes it so fucking obvious that the childrens wellbeing is not the major concern. It’s about correcting their “birth defect”.
        No offense Black Iris. It’s not about you personally. It’s just that you aren’t the first person to be completely unaware of the possible health damage for children altough it’s so fucking easy to find.

      2. Puberty blockers have been used for premature puberty for a while and the literature doesn’t say there are problems with doing that. I don’t know how much it has been studied, but so far I don’t think there are known side effects when it is used for that.
        The difference I see is that with premature puberty, the child will still go through puberty later and will not be infertile.

      3. Excuse me. The drug doesn’t know what someone is taking it for. The cells it affects don’t either. The chemical acts as it acts. Lupron is a dangerous drug. All the known side effects were first reported there.
        Premature puberty is mostly in girls 8-10 who are very obese. That is what should be treated, without drugs.

      4. According to ABC News in Las Vegas (, 10/30/09), (Lupron pharma) pleaded guilty in 2001 to criminal charges that it violated the Federal Prescription Drug Marketing Act.
        The pharmaceutical company agreed to pay $875 million to settle claims that it paid kickbacks to doctors to promote Lupron.
        Dr. Andrew Friedman (Lupron developer) admitted that he falsified and fabricated 80 percent of the data in leuprolide acetate (Lupron) research reports.
        “no known side effects.”

  7. While I describe myself as having the same physical dysphoria as transsexuals, I am not trans. I’m sorry that wasn’t made more clear. I was addressing trans people as someone with the symptom of dysphoria, not as a fellow transsexual. I was answering questions I have gotten from trans men who are curious about how I view their condition since I exited that ideology.

    1. Hi! It is an honor to “meet” you. Your writings are phenomenal and your perspective invaluable. I’m sorry if I misunderstood the point about being trans. I interpreted this from some of your writings where you repeatedly state that there are “true” transsexuals, that transsexuality is a medical condition and that you view your own experiences in that way. For example from your October 20 post:
      “I categorize “trans” in two ways:
      – Transgender: those who transition due to misogyny. They experience “social dysphoria” (uncomfortable living as a woman) and wish to take on a different role. They are more likely to identify as non-binary and/or to be more comfortable with their sex aside from social issues. Gender is the focus here, rather than sex. This group is less likely to physically transition, and/or may see testosterone as a cosmetic tool. I don’t address this crowd much in my writing because this is not my background.
      – Transsexual: those whose main reason for transition is physical dysphoria. They experience a disconnect between mind and body. Sex is the focus here, more than gender roles. I think this condition may be more related to sexual trauma and deeply internalized misogyny, though there are a plethora of causes. This is closer to where I came from, and why I focus on this group.
      (Let me note that those categories can overlap and are hastily sketched for the purpose of illustrating the two different roads that lead to transition. The descriptions are not concrete.)
      I view transsexuality as a medical condition characterized by sex dysphoria. I think there are a lot of trans/trans***/transgender people on tumblr that are not transsexual, and I definitely don’t think these people should be physically transitioning, ever, but I don’t really have a dog in that fight. It makes sense to me why they would not associate themselves with being female (misogyny,) and it’s not my place to judge how they have chosen to deal with that “social dysphoria.” This group is rapidly growing, but I anticipate a lot of these people detransitioning in the future.
      When I was transitioning, I spent a lot of time associating with the “truscum” types and calling out trans*** people for appropriating a medical condition. I still hold similar views, but without the venom and rage that I felt while on T. The only real difference now is that I think physical dysphoria can be treated in alternative ways besides HRT and surgery.”
      You may have been using transsexuality as a synonym for sex dysphoria (as opposed to social dysphoria) and I misunderstood? I was trying to be respectful of your self-identification and am mortified that I misunderstood and worse: misrepresented your views. I hope you will forgive me. I thought you considered yourself a detransitioning transsexual (as opposed to an ex-transsexual who has rejected that ideology entirely.)
      Would you like me to correct the post, and if so, how would you like me to refer to you re: transsexuality (ex-trans, wrongly diagnosed, etc?) I would be relieved if you could instruct me in how I can fix this misrepresentation and thank you so much for telling me.

  8. Gallus-I’m really glad to see you highlighting this post by blogger Twentythreetimes. It’s an incredible list, and yes, her blog is hands-down one of the most important things any “care provider” or “helping professional” can read if they are genuinely interested in learning how to “do no harm” or “help” their way out of a paper bag.
    This list does not represent the first time this young woman has done what should be the professionals’ work, for them. They should be ashamed that they’re leaving such heavy lifting to someone they continue to harm instead of actually helping or supporting. Twentythreetimes is brilliant, and her ideas are incredibly powerful, but honestly I’m enraged that she’s having to take this on in addition to the work of putting her life back together.
    But I also have to say I’m so confused to see you describe her as a transsexual. As if the thrust of her blog wasn’t clear enough, she’s explicitly said “I’m Not Trans”:
    Twentythreetimes is a detransitioning woman. I get that you might want to highlight she’s been through transition and really knows what she’s talking about here–but I think it’s quite important to acknowledge she’s a woman.
    I would really hate to see her alienated from a space like yours, where she should easily be seen and accepted as a woman, unlike the rest of the world.

    1. I don’t understand your comment about how I should acknowledge Twentythreetimes being a woman. I made it quite clear she is female. I approach gender from a radical feminist perspective which means I don’t believe female transsexuals stop being adult human females (women) by means of their self-concept or body mods. I’m not sure what you mean. Did you think this post appeared to be writing about a male transsexual? Confused.
      I certainly hope she wouldn’t be alienated. I’m not sure why she would (although she might be irritated at my wording or misinterpretation of some of her writing). All females are seen and accepted as women on this blog (and by me) regardless of their belief system or body mods.
      Still a bit confused by your comment but hopefully that clears things up on your end at least. Thank you so much for communicating with me about this!
      P.S. She was kind enough to drop by and communicate with me below on this point as well- Thanks again for reaching out because the LAST thing I would want to do is alienate she OR YOU. I could not possibly have more respect for either of you.

    2. Maybe I will edit the post using your term “detransitioning woman” until TwentyThreeTimes tells me what she prefers. Update: Okay that’s what I decided to do for now. THANK YOU AGAIN.

      1. Thanks so much, Gallus–yeah, you were clear about her being female, it was more just calling her a “transsexual” that was freaking me out! I read through your replies to 23xx and I think I get where this idea came from now.
        It was just really jarring to see her called a transsexual instead of a woman. I think part of why this is so sensitive is that for many of us who detransition and do the work of accepting ourselves as female, as women–not only is there no support, there is a lot that pushes back against this. We can’t go to the doctor without them trying to put us back on T (even if we’re there for something unrelated); we can’t hang out in “lgbt” community without people asking us what pronoun we use; etc.
        It’s hard to detransition and there is continuous unrelenting pressure to “go back.” Most of us lose our whole social network and find that everyone who cared so much about “the trans show” could give not a single fuck about us anymore, as Violet Irene referenced in her guest post here.
        Our former community waits for us to “come back” to being trans so they can gloat and say we just “weren’t ready” before, or if we don’t, mocks us for “failing.” Because that’s what it means to them, to be a woman.

      2. I’m so glad you corrected me- I was very concerned about offending her, which led me to do THAT VERY THING! UGH! I never (or rarely) think twice about male’s “feelings” when I write about them (sorry guys!) but I try to be as mindful as possible when writing about women. I worry about doing something that offends them or makes them unhappy or increases their challenges. Now I see that is stupid and I should just use my own terminology under every circumstance. I was trying to be sensitive to (as I interpreted it) her definition of transsexual vs. transgender but I shouldn’t have. Actually, now that I think of it, I have done the same thing for male HBS’ers who have posted here or who I have written about. Because I know it irritates the fuck out of them to be called transgender rather than transsexual. Oh well. I FUCKED UP!

      3. A great benefit of leaving the trans train is not having to care about the minute distinctions of the Correct Terminology of the Day. I honestly find that whole thing abusive, the “shifting sands” of You’re Doing It Wrong by saying this word instead of that one, etc., people acting like the thing they asked to be called yesterday is suddenly a slur today…
        I really hope you understand why I spoke up about it in this case, and that you can see it’s not about what I described above.
        Honestly, one of the things that’s such a relief about your blog is that you just name the physical reality here, and you don’t do that dance. There’s very few other places in the world where that is true.

      4. I’m so grateful that you spoke up and completely agree!
        “…you just name the physical reality here, and you don’t do that dance.”
        And THIS is where I fucked up here. I would never ever refer to a female transitioner as male or with male pronouns, even knowing that it “hurts her feelings”. Because even if it hurts her feelings I think it is really important to “hold the door open”. I don’t mean giving women a bunch of shit for transitioning. But holding the line that says “I accept you as a sister”. Women I know who have detransitioned know that I am someone they can talk to who supports them as a fellow “gender nonconforming” woman: and that I always have.
        But I DO try to be mindful of respecting her specific perspective on her own transgenderism (or transsexuality) -even if I don’t “agree” with it- and I am careful (or try to be) not to frame detransitioners as “regretters” or “misdiagnosed” or “trans-critical” etc. Unless they explicitly state those views. There is enormous pressure on detransitioners to uphold the trans philosophy, lest they become attacked and estranged from their support system (which at that point is usually largely other female transitioners). Apparently this can cross the line into “doing that dance”- even inadvertantly for WOMEN WHO DO NOT WANT IT. Good lesson for me.

  9. Forgot to add: please edit your post and correct your terminology. This post makes me really uncomfortable.
    – Twentythreetimes, author

    1. I would be happy to. (See above). What terminology would you like me to use? Generally I would have referred to you as a “detransitioned F2T” or “ex-trans”. I tried to be respectful of your beliefs as I understood them: That you considered yourself to be a transsexual who is no longer transitioning. I hope you will forgive my error and instruct me on what terminology you would like me to use. I was trying to be respectful of the fact that you try to be very clear (I thought!) that transsexuality is a medical condition which you are trying to treat by alternate means. I can’t tell you how sorry I am that I misrepresented you on this point! And made you uncomfortable. I hope you will instruct me on the terminology you prefer. THANK YOU SO MUCH> XOXOXOXOXOX

  10. Perhaps one of the issues 23xx is raising is that someone who has been abused may experience body dysphoria that can be misinterpreted as being transgendered. And that someone who has been raised to believe that lesbianism and womanhood are bad things might also dislike their body and be misdiagnosed as trans.
    Is that correct?

    1. Black Iris, I think that in light of the crushing misogyny and lesbian hatred of our culture, the very idea of “trans” is pretty suspect with respect to ftms. Yeah, sexual abuse and body dysphoria and hating yourself for being female and hating yourself for being a lesbian and being too ashamed to live are such incredibly broad and almost inescapable experiences–to me, it’s not that you’re “misdiagnosed” as trans but that the “diagnosis” is of a response to a sick society.
      Likewise, the problem with what happened to Nancy Verhelst wasn’t just that they “botched” the surgery or that they were “misdiagnosing” her as trans–though surely, they botched the surgery and what they named as “trans” could be said in a very different way. The problem was that they took this woman’s life into their hands and promised her relief that they couldn’t deliver, in the name of “transition.”
      Here’s the problem:
      It’s that you can really have textbook “true transsexual” dysphoria, PROPERLY diagnosed by the current model, and STILL not be relieved let alone “cured” by the current treatment protocol.
      It’s that you can be raised in a relatively gay-tolerant and superficially pro-feminist environment, actually believe you have no internalized misogyny/lesbophobia (as if any of us escape that), and think that your dysphoria must therefore have a different etiology because the truth of how you’re impacted by your environment is so obscured by this story of “wrong body, that’s all.”

  11. The funny thing is I actually sat on this post and hesitated using it because I was so concerned it might displease her to be featured on a blog so heavily critical of transsexuality itself. Ha! But I decided “the list” was just too important not to post it. Next time I will just forge forward and worry less and use the same terminology I usually do. What an idiot I am!!! lol.

  12. It is frustrating how most thought around the transgender culture is made up of dogmatic, fundamentalist kind of thinking. No other outlooks are allowed, even from other people who suffer dysphoria.
    People who are delusional lash out when those delusions are challenged or questioned in any way. I think you see that quite often from trans individuals.

    1. To quote lush-in-denial from tumblr:
      “they don’t care if you’ve “been there” they don’t care if you have thought and felt and lived through all the agony they have they don’t care they just absolutely fucking don’t because they’re fucking brainwashed hivemind idiots
      i was a person with sex dysphoria struggling to reconcile that through gender which exacerbated my dysphoria because i thought there was a fix for what was wrong with me and i thought i was the only answer and i blamed myself for it and that’s so fucking self destructive and wrong
      hate your body, who gives a shit, but don’t do it because you don’t fit a fucking label that we reiterate billions of times is socially constructed christ almighty”

  13. Alright, I have spent quite a while attempting to construct an answer and it’s going to have to wait for now. I would like to respond in some way to most of what you’ve said, but I need a lot more time to figure out how to do that. You come from a very different perspective and as I write out possible replies, I feel like I am translating language, because the way you talk about this subject is very different from how I am used to.
    You’ve also asked me some sticky questions. Part of the difficulty is the terminology, but part of it is that I cannot answer some of these things in any way in a public space.
    For now, let me just say:
    – I appreciate the apology
    – Thanks for changing the terminology
    – “Detransitioned woman” is the term I would prefer.
    – Ex-transsexual, wrongly diagnosed, and ex-FtT are not appropriate terms in reference to me, though it seems you are going to use what you want regardless. I’m rather confused about all those statements about that.
    I have a lot of mixed feelings so I’m just going to let this simmer in my mind for a while.

    1. Okay! I think I will just go ahead and use my own terminology from now on instead of trying to anticipate the terminology that someone else would use. Clearly that does not work. Hope that makes sense. I mean, I am writing from my own perspective so I should just use my own terminology and not try to avoid offending. That clearly does not work anyway unfortunately.
      Of course I am pleased to hear criticism and make corrections if something is factually incorrect or misrepresentative.
      Thanks again for getting back to me, and for accepting my apology for referring to you as transsexual, and for misstating that you use that terminology to describe your experience. Take care,

  14. Reblogged this on Transitioning back to being a man and commented:
    Interesting post. I guess during my transition in 1999-2000 my doctor and therapist weren’t very knowledgeable (specifically about autogynephilia), and they really didn’t catch that the desire to transition might have been an escapist factor of my profound depression & PTSD. On top of that, our region is exceptionally “progressive” (i.e. wrong) about “gender identity” issues, so they basically just waved me through. Cognitive-behavioral therapy & perhaps OCD therapy would likely have sorted me out. De-transitioning now, over the past couple of months, I have found the process to be remarkably easy. Yes, I have breasts now, and no hair on my face, and half the time people still call me ma’am, but conceptually, in terms of my process, I really ain’t trippin.’ Going off estrogen “cold turkey” this summer, and then conjuring up a lightning storm of cognitive-behavioral self-therapy that included many, many hours of meditation & crying while staring into far distances, woke me completely from the illusion. Even after 13 years living as a fake woman, I worked it out quickly. The final breakthrough realization in late August. It was painful & awkward for a few weeks, but it has felt more natural with each new day. The main ingredients now are these: I am no longer doing anything to make people think I’m female; I am no longer doing anything to camouflage the fact that I am male; and I am increasingly comfortable in recognizing and understanding myself as male (in ways that I NEVER was before). I was “gender” dysphoric before, but I’m not now. I was autogynephilic before, but I’m not now. I never hung out with other trans people, so no-one is giving me any shit about my de-transitioning. I am doing this alone without doctors, therapists, support groups etc., just with my own resilience. I have been very, very lucky.

    1. There needs to be a platform where male and female detransitioners can share their stories and seek help and support without getting harrassed and silenced. I mean there are countless of transgender sites but no one for people who go back and need help? This needs to be changed.

      1. @GM – I think that to make a platform will require some group that can be an intermediary and run a website. I say this because for an individual there might be concerns about having your site hacked or being outed. Perhaps I’m paranoid, but this is how it seems to me.

      2. Black Iris why do you make these statements like “Lupron is the only drug on the planet with no known side effects” and “to run a blog/forum requires a group”. Are you just a troll? You said in an earlier comment that you are not feminist, lesbian, or transgender but just an “outsider to this debate who hates to see groups fighting” or some such. Yet you drop your little comments seemingly based on wild guesses and groundless conclusions. Can you stop doing that? I am inches away from moderating your posts.

      3. It is not hard at all to run an anonymous blog or forum. As I have for years. OBVIOUSLY. Or one under your real name as Retransition.Org does.

      4. I would like to see this too and would support anyone who does this. If I can help in anyway with building or hosting it (or just being a cheerleader I am happy as well.)
        One of the things that I have been wondering about is what is the right platform to do this. Is it a message board? A website? A Tumbr? A Facebook group. I have learned in the past two months is that FtMtFs need their own space free of us guys. Men probably need our own space too – but without going into obvious gender politics, it is clear to me that women having their own space is absolutely necessary to a degree that it will never be with men. I will respect that space.
        Still, it would be nice to have some shared community. When I first started looking for detransiton sites the ones I found were from former FTMs. The stuff they were talking about really inspired me – just common sense things like “start a journal”, “don’t keep watching transition progress YouTube videos”, “look at yourself in the mirror” etc. I could go on and on. I think that sort of stuff maybe resonates more easily with women, but I also think that it is helpful to men and I wish that they could hear it. It could be helpful.
        The conversation around how to build this community seems to be happening right now in these comments at gendertrender so that is why I am here. I obviously follow this blog but it would not be helpful for me (or anyone) if I became a more regular “voice” on this site. I want to be here for this conversation though. And thank you to GM and the others here for this thread and others. (I have no comment on posting the loony picture on the bicycle!) I will continue to be an ally in advocating for the parts of Radical Feminism that are in alliance with my own belief system.

      5. Joel I think you can easily add-on a forum to your wordpress site depending on the theme (template) you use. I have not done so here because it is hard enough screening hate comments and trolls but as a male site you should not have that problem.
        My opinion is that it is important that there be such sites accessible publicly. It can take a while for folks to stop lurking and dip their toe in, even those who are heavily invested in the content.

    2. “Lupron is the only drug on the planet with no known side effects”
      What?! Ok this smells like troll. This is so fucking disrespectful to the people who suffer from Lupron related health damage!

  15. (Please only publish this comment, the last one got all jumbled with copy-pasting! Sorry.)
    What is incorrect are your assumptions. Trans men often assume I am like you; you assume I am more like them, and neither of you are right. I purposefully stay away from certain declarations and both sides (trans people and radfems) are so sure they’ve got me pegged.
    I wish these questions could have arisen in a private setting, because then I could explain things much more easily.
    On my blog, I discuss my situation without quantifying it. My blog is meant to serve as a bridge, and is written with the trans community in mind. I don’t discuss my politics there. It is purposefully ambiguous, but that is not an invitation to fill in the blanks. My blog is not a representation of myself; it is only the experiences I hope will be useful to others. I talk about my views looking back, not forward, since I am currently a little less than a year from having thought I was male with a birth defect. If I do not keep this past within sight, I’m more of an island than a bridge.
    I try to relate to trans men and I try to make sense to them with my language and discussion of my past transition. They are a large chunk of my audience. The answers you quoted were answers to questions from trans men – and that’s important to take into the background of that post. Those were questions I had been avoiding answering, because they delve into some tough territories – notice especially how I dealt with the first question. There are many opinions on this subject I refuse to discuss publicly. Opinions won’t help others make sense of their own life, but my experience can be a stepping stone.
    When I googled “detransition” for the first time, I found the guest post by Violet Irene on here, and that was my very first exposure to the concept of complete detransition (I was googling the term thinking I would find resources on quitting T – that was all I could imagine detransition to be, but I discovered a whole different possibility.) The rest of your blog, especially then, was frankly quite alien to me.
    I think we write with very different audiences in mind. Some of what you said rubbed me the wrong way yesterday, but I realize we’re coming at this from two different directions. Transsexuality itself is a construct, but dysphoria is a real experience. (I believe we are on common ground with that understanding, but I could be wrong.) On my blog, I address this with the terms that I think will best reach the group I aim for, not necessarily with the terms that I would choose to use for myself in my own mind.
    “I was trying to be respectful of the fact that you try to be very clear (I thought!) that transsexuality is a medical condition which you are trying to treat by alternate means” – I treat my dysphoria, and no longer tie any heavy words to that experience (like transsexuality.) I am just a woman who came to adulthood in an unusual way.
    Thank you for your accommodation and willingness to listen.

    1. I don’t think it’s that unusual!
      We all have to utilize the tactics we think will communicate best with those we wish to reach and choose our own words and terms as we please. Indeed.

  16. Please sign this petition for ALL citizen access to all clinical trial data, including negative, most of which is legally withheld with FDA backing. We have only seen part of the Lupron data and there are currently two other drugs of that class being marketed with even less information made available to the public. Pharma funded citizen ‘advocacy’ groups are being used to market them online, similar to the Monsanto campaign George Monbiot wrote about in the Guardian in 2002.
    I don’t think this is off topic. These drugs will be used for children, but are presently being unofficially (by prescription) being tested on women with gyne concerns, and not even in randomized double blind trials. You can bet the trans family group is involved in the push.

    1. ‘Pharma funded citizen advocacy’ indeed. A new UK children’s trans lobby group was promoted on Radio 4 today, with an item on the PM programme at ~ 17.14 BST. Listen and weep. They wheel out the consultant psychiatrist who thinks cross sex hormones and puberty blocking drugs are ‘sensible’ and the mother who knew her ‘daughter’ was trans from the time he dressed up in her clothes as a toddler. Said mother is a front for this shiny new lobby group, which has emerged out of nowhere, with premises, counsellors, a daily funded phone line, loads more resources than any rape crisis centre, suited and booted and ready to push more and more children onto Lupron etc. Funded by? I wonder.

      1. Miep every drug pushing ‘disease org’ is a non profit, funded by pharma. The staff salaries and goodies, the computers, the carpet the pharma marketing dept at their beck and call, or rather, setting the whole program out for the staff to follow. Or else.
        The Heart and Stroke Foundation, The Kidney Foundation, the Liver Foundation, The Arthritis Society, the MS Society etc. ON and on. Every one of them. Read the annual reports and you’ll usually find the funders, and search through every website, even WebMed, and you’ll find the a pharma. Every run for a cure etc. Their logos are big.
        Here’s the newest:
        Backed by…
        I would love to read Anon snark the hell out of this site. Lupron isnt’ there of course because it’s already on the market, but two same-thing drugs with different names and one molecule flipped are. The lucky lucky registered members will be smoothed into being guinea pigs for (sob) women who would otherwise die.. er, have heavy bleeding and maybe even, cramps, for a year or four until menopause. Because = cerviaaaaal cancer. Sweeter words were never spoken around a pharma boardroom table. All those women too old to have benefited (hork) from Gardasil can now take the two Lupron type drugs in the pipeline, which I will not name because the child eugenics vampires will be on the bandwagon for them too.

        1. Also, regarding this:
          “I would love to read Anon snark the hell out of this site. Lupron isnt’ there of course because it’s already on the market, but two same-thing drugs with different names and one molecule flipped are. The lucky lucky registered members will be smoothed into being guinea pigs for (sob) women who would otherwise die.. er, have heavy bleeding and maybe even, cramps, for a year or four until menopause. Because = cerviaaaaal cancer. Sweeter words were never spoken around a pharma boardroom table. All those women too old to have benefited (hork) from Gardasil can now take the two Lupron type drugs in the pipeline, which I will not name because the child eugenics vampires will be on the bandwagon for them too.”
          The AMA: Dudes Setting Fires In Order To Have Fires To Put Out Since 1847. If I’d bought into much of their crap I would have been short a number of parts for a few decades now. And the women in the previous generation got scooped out for no reason at all other than having successfully reproduced the requisite number of children.
          But then they could stay sexy for their men with HRT ( until around 2003 when it became evident HRT was killing women).
          So convenient, these procedures. Well, except for the point two percent or so who die from them, and the 40% complications rate. More or less. But what’s a few women more or less, when there’s money to be made?

    1. Guess they don’t realize that the trans movement can basically function *as* an ex-gay movement, just one that’s framed to be socially acceptable to the “secular” left.

  17. Gallus, this beautiful post has really stuck with me the last few days, and I commented about it on my own blog here:
    There are two kinds of “holding the door open” on the transwoman side which I’m grappling with right now. The first is holding the door open to male detransitioners. I’m so grateful that Joel is trying to do this. Thanks Joel! The second door to hold open is the one which says to transwomen “There are a lot of problematic aspects to trans ideology but there are ways you can live as a transwoman which most of the direct harm to females.” That’s the angle I’ve been trying to take with my own blog, though so far it’s been mostly a failure. But I try to remember how effective harm reduction can be from my days doing outreach to drug users, sex workers, and people with hiv (and frequently, people who were in all three of those categories). Modern trans politics are offensive from their foundations; however, I can’t yet give up on believing that there are ways for males to transition (to what, I’m not sure) that are less of a lose-lose situation for both women and transwomen.
    If any GT readers have suggestions about this, I welcome them getting in touch with me through my blog.

  18. LGB community organizations and “centers” in cities all over the U.S. have transitioning support groups and services. It would be only fair, decent, and honest for those same organizations to offer detransitioning support and services. Obviously there would be push back and the onus would be on the brave individuals who asked for that help. But somehow there needs to be dialogue there. Obviously LGB centers have had a significant role in legitimizing transgenderism and they damn well should take responsibility for the havoc that has caused for individuals and the community.

    1. That would be the tipping point wouldn’t it, all the psychotic behaviour and violent threats the admins would get would dispell any doubt who they have been backing. We should all get behind that, and start petitions and letters to the ACLU et al to come on board with the civil rights of those brave women who want to detransition.

      1. “That would be the tipping point wouldn’t it, all the psychotic behaviour and violent threats the admins would get would dispell any doubt who they have been backing. We should all get behind that, and start petitions and letters to the ACLU et al to come on board with the civil rights of those brave women who want to detransition.”
        It would make a great deal of sense to focus more on detransitioning people than transgender people since the latter follow radfems around all the time anyway. This is a really smart idea.

      2. We also need to challenge and expose those same orgs. for getting on the transing children bandwagon as being COUNTER to supporting gay and lesbian children.
        Maybe we can brainstorm some more about how and where to do this.

    2. I’d cry with relief if this were to happen. I’m pretty sure it won’t. They’d make a false analogy to right-wing ex-gay conversion therapy, when the truth is that for many of us, being “trans” in the first place is closer to that.

  19. It’s a big clit not a penis! So suck it and stop being twansphobic or i will call the united nations on you and i will come and break into ur house too! fuckkkkkkkkkk. why are you so bigoted, take this lady peeen! beotch!

  20. Every time I read this list it sinks in a little more, how powerful it is. I am really struck by the restrained, concise nature of it. Every item on that list can be unpacked extensively. Any one item tells myriad stories. Some reactions:
    – Knowledge of the existence of detransition
    (How stunning that this is never once mentioned as part of any “informed consent” process. How incredible that nobody says, “This may not work.”)
    – Information on alternative options for dealing with dysphoria such as meditation and exercises to re-align my self of self with my body
    (No alternatives are ever even mentioned, and in fact there’s this attainment of “realness” that comes with being someone for whom ONLY medicalization will help.)
    – Knowledge of radical feminism
    (It is not an accident that radical feminism is pretty much the most profound cultural taboo imaginable within the pomo/queer/trans framework.)
    – Knowledge of how trauma can influence one’s sense of self
    – Trained, knowledgeable support for my trauma
    – Someone to guide me into addressing my trauma, instead of letting me go through therapy thinking it really didn’t affect me in any significant way
    (As I wrote about in Clownfish Redux, I think trauma is the key. And I think that the incredible neglect for this reality (on the part of professionals) is unconscionable. It’s brutal, to witness a person in the kind of trauma that leads her to act out on her own body this way, and to assist in that acting out while leaving the trauma completely unremarked on.)
    – Better role models to look up to who exemplify living confidently as a gender non-conforming woman
    (I’d also say, better access to the role models who already exist. Maybe let’s start with not villifying them and making them into a profound cultural taboo! Just a thought. It’s not an accident that MWMF is THE ENEMY, for example.)
    – More accurate information on the effects of testosterone
    – Honest discussion on the mental effects of testosterone
    (Should be so basic and uncontroversial, how heartbreaking that she even needed to say this. But she did.)
    – Parental support in being gay
    – Parental acceptance of my being gender non-conforming
    – Better support by non-parental figures in being gay and gender non-conforming
    (Amen. This rejection cuts deep.)
    – Knowledge of how deeply misogyny can affect females
    (Real acknowledgment. The opposite of the idea of “cis.”)
    – Acknowledgement and information about internalized misogyny within the FTM spectrum
    (Indeed. Where would we even begin? It’s a problem of massive proportions, and completely unchecked.)

  21. I think also there is not a lot of detransition information out there too because a lot who do so conform heavily still to societal stereotypical roles. I do know on my facebook one other former mtf and he detransitioned too but never says any thoughts at all about it and now dresses/acts completely like an average dude it’s dissapointing. I’ve commented on his wall asking “why don’t you ever share any of your thoughts or feelings on the stuff?” and he just completely ignores me.

    1. Perhaps detransitioners feel they need to go stealth. The trans community has mixed feelings about them and people outside the community are likely to be as prejudiced against a detransitioner as they would be against a transgendered person.

      1. Black Iris you have decided to completely ignore your host, the lesbian woman authoring this blog (ME) and decided to continue your “non-transgender, non-feminist and non-lesbian” trolling against my clearly stated wishes. You did this because you see my concerns as the site owner as unimportant and inconsequential to your superiority and privilege to spray your entitlement all over my own space in total disregard to own my needs and boundaries IN MY OWN SPACE. You do this because your own sense of importance -you feel- privileges you to stomp on women and lesbians in their own spaces as you wish. And you DO wish.
        Instead of responding in a good faith manner your choice was to post as “Anonymous1”. Are you fucking retarded. Sir, men like you make the lives of women a living hell. You are the enemy of women. You have no perogative to insert yourself onto us without our consent sir. Men like you will not be missed by women when you are gone. Your absence will be a relief. Your grave will be of so little concern that we won’t even bother pissing upon it. Do not comment on my blog again sir. DO NOT COMMENT HERE AGAIN SIR.
        You were given an opportunity to respond in good faith and your response was that of a predator. Because that is what you are. I only hope others who have reached out to you here remain safe from your bad intentions. Good riddance boring lame woman-hating asshole of no interest to humanity whatsoever.

      2. I don’t feel hostility towards detransitioning people. I consider them victims of a sort, as I do transgender people. But the cultural inclination to seek somatic fixes for psychological issues has a lot of bad outcomes, and this is one of them.
        What transgender people often fail to see is that radical feminists are not targeting transgender people particularly. We address dangers presented to women by all men, including those who insist they are female. At the same time, we offer support particularly to non-gender-conforming women. If there was a similar group of radical men offering support to non-gender-conforming men, that would help. But there is only so much we are willing to offer men ourselves, when so many women are in need.
        I gather Gallus has banned you, so I’ll leave it at that.

    2. “If there was a similar group of radical men offering support to non-gender-conforming men, that would help.”
      Now ain’t THAT a radical concept! (whilst googling to try and find some I came across this link:
      which is interesting and hence probably transphobic because it clearly separates gender and sex and gives gender as socially constructed, not universally defined nor naturally occurring.).
      So, ARE there any such groups? Apart from ones that try to teach men how to man-up as it were.And by support we mean, obviously, not just how to be trans………….

  22. “Jazz and Coy” are like watching a Twilight Zone episode. You keep waiting for someone to burst out and say we’re just kidding about all this nonsense. How can grown adults all just sit in a room and have this nonsensical freak show paraded in front of them and not question it?

    “Jazz” being allowed to use the girls bathroom because HE kept peeing his pants at his desk until the school relented. Do none of these people see that behaviour for what it is? They’re all so busy being good little liberals.

  23. Also, the “we’ll just have to carry on with our struggle” looks mommy and daddy weirdo have is priceless. Oh dear, the cross they have to bear. Their gay son “jazz” meanwhile just loves all the attention and gets to wear a frock as well. Spoiled brat gets to use the girls bathroom and successfully forced himself onto the girls soccer team and now has everyone is telling him he’s brave. lol.

    1. I can’t even listen to this garbage. Does this ass in the suit (he drops his g’s just like Sarah Palin) know how little girls were (and probably are) being denied the right to go to the restroom? A study was done years ago about teachers letting little boys go to the toilet and not permitting girls the same privilege, even though girls have shorter urethras and waiting is far more likely to lead to UTIs. How many little girls peed their pants when they were denied bathroom privileges? I want to scream!!!!!

      1. Don’t be dissin’ Sarah Palin, or for sure, I’ll take you for a man. She’s a woman. She’s working to overcome in her way, not my way, but she’s experienced everything that women everywhere have lived through, that NO man ever.

      2. I just realized that I actually know one of Jazz’s relatives, with whom I watched the Barbara Walters special with years back. I did not realize that this was the same kid. I don’t know anything about the parents, but I have read some things in the last few years about Coy’s parents- seriously messed up stuff. The mother really wanted a multiple pregnancy and did so by buying fetility drugs online and then blogged about it on some mommy site. The kid in the wheelchair has brain damage because she caught a serious virus and the parents took her to a herbologist instead of the emergency room. Everything screams of Munchausen-by-proxy. The father seems heavily invested in this attention as well. I think he considers himself a writer. If they weren’t getting all of this attention from the child’s Jenda issues, they would probably be slipping arsenic in their cheerios. The trans cultists, sorry, “activists”, are a bunch of porn-sick dudes who not only want to colonize women’s physical bodies and safe spaces but also colonize and destroy feminism as a whole. They do not even have to seek out children to groom for their cause (desexualizing/legitimizing their fetish/mental illness) because they are getting attention-mongering child-abusers to offer up their children wholesale! What a perfectly sick combination. This video is absolutely creeptastic- a bread and circus for the masses. Parading these kids around for their own little circle-jerk of self-congratulatory bullshit. Oh, everyone on the stage is so very “brave”!

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