0 thoughts on “Trans Trenders in their own words: Gender Roles

  1. Good grief! How old is *this* poor little kid??!!

    (It’s not one of yours, but appeared in the series below).
    She’s going on T??!!
    She looks about 8 years old. 🙁

    1. Feeling shame and frustration over looking younger than one’s age is one of the prime factors in the decision of some young women to inject “T” which has the side effect of making users look older. Teens and young adults like the woman in the video you posted don’t like being told they look like “kids” or “eight year olds”. Looking younger than their age is a source of great distress for them. So much so that I hesitated in posting your comment.

      1. Are the girls really aware what T does to their body besides changing their face/voice body shape?? Do they know about the dangers? It seems they don’t. I wonder if the community care about this…

      2. So is this ‘T’ something like reverse botox? This is the first time I’ve heard of it and it is something that touched a nerve in me as I was called a babyface for the longest time until I’ve aged and matured physically. And I actually took that as a compliment.

  2. Rather encouraging in one way, but very defeatist in another, in that the idea seems to be that they’re bad and restrictive, but that you have to ‘work with them’ to establish your identity.
    Lack of insight when it comes to really applying what they’ve learnt to themselves. Or thinking about WHY we have the roles we do (i.e. the patriarchy and feminism).
    I found the first one rather depressing — all that stuff about how daft boys are expected to behave, then the show and tell with her packer. So she wants to be a boy, but not one of the daft ones…..
    Again, I get a sense that they realise how daft this is all is, but can’t see any way forward for themselves apart from the transition route, then try and subvert the male role from the inside. A little more pix and mix within the gender system, rather than trying to get rid of gender.
    Perhaps an ability to see that gender ROLES are a load of crap, but unwilling to admit that ‘innate gender’ might be as well. Like those women who used to be able to admit things weren’t all okay for women, but couldn’t get as far as seeing what the system was that caused that, and pinning the blame where it needed to be pinned.

  3. The woman in video #2 refers to a class she’s taking on men, women and society. All three of the women use similar language about the topic. I wonder, what is being taught in that class, and by whom? Is it possible that the people who are teaching those gender courses, or the people who write the course materials, are teaching women students to feel like victims because they’re women?
    That’s what I always wonder about all the ftm youtube videos. The ideology they’re spouting is so similar, even though the individuals are different and don’t even know one another except for their enabling comments on youtube. Where are they getting this stuff from? Maybe someone should talk to those teachers and writers and ask them, do you really intend for the women in your class to feel like victims with no power?

  4. It’s as though they care about fighting gender stereotypes only once they see they can’t meet them as ‘male’ but couldn’t be bothered to subvert the rules whilst ‘living as female.’
    I don’t think there are even exclusively ‘women’s studies’ courses anymore.

  5. “The ideology they’re spouting is so similar, even though the individuals are different and don’t even know one another except for their enabling comments on youtube. Where are they getting this stuff from? ”
    I guess the internet. Plus any LGBT….. info they are likely to have come across all says the same kind of thing, and links to the same groups. Hence they all end up with the same ole trans ideology.
    Of course not HELPED by what they learn they have to say to medics in order to get the T and surgery they want. Hence they ALL end up singing from the same hymn-sheet.
    Seems to be, in a way, the same ole confusion with sex and gender. So, I’d say that sex/biology is REAL (sorry, but we all know now that this is a contentious statement in transland!), whereas gender is just the nonsense that society puts on top of sex, in terms of gender roles. Which I’d distinguish from (some) sex roles, in the sense that some SEX roles (i.e. who impregnates and who has to birth the baby) do reduce to simple biology. Whatever transmen giving birth might have to say about it………………..
    Whereas in transland, biological sex is rather unimportant, and (innate) gender, in terms of some mysterious ‘gender voice in the brain’ is real. Hence ‘gender roles’ in this reading are more like what we used to mean by old-fashioned ‘sex-roles’ and ‘sex-role sterotyping’ — why should I make the tea just because I’m female now becomes why should I make the tea just because I identify as female (or even in extreme cases, I SHOULD make the tea because I don’t just identify as female, but have a proper girly brain all loaded with intuition and incapable of logical thought, and just LOVE to take care of everyone and fetch and carry for them, because that’s being a proper LADY……).
    So what I think they’re hearing is just what some fun-fems used to think was feminism — we have fairly arbitrary sexual stereotypes, and must try and change them.
    In effect, questioning fairly arbitrary gender roles (because they don’t even have the fall-back of biological difference to explain SOME differences in sex roles), because in transland someone who identifies as male can have either a female body or a male body. Hence birth being a sex-specific and hence female-specific thing is GONE, because according to trans, men can and do give birth.
    So they’re recptive to the ‘roles are nonsense’ messge, but NOT questioning the existence of gender in the first place, because that has become the whole basis of who they think they are. And the needed dumping of biology as unimportant compared to inner gender means they’re not going to be receptive to the realisation that SEX is what counts in society, not gender.
    Hence why we get some of the familiar language of fun-feminism, but all warped to fit in with innate gender rather than sex.

  6. I can’t help but compare this to all the other tortuous things women have done to themselves to try and achieve some stereotype. Chemically straightening and bleaching our hair, trying to lighten our skin, breast implants, excessive dieting.This almost seems like a continuum of all that. You can never be a perfect woman, not in our culture. Sometimes I think the definition of female is to be somehow defective, at least that’s how it seems from the way the culture is always policing us to shave our legs, dumb ourselves down, deform our feet with heels, etc, etc. We’re always being told that there’s something wrong with us, that we’re lacking and defective.
    Gender is just a bunch of nonsense. Seriously, it’s superficial and culturally imposed on you, and also subject to change at any time! Not long ago men were wearing tights, heels, and powdered wigs. Boy babies were dressed in pink. It’s really frustrating that here we are in 2012 and we’ve still got people running around trying to pretend that gender is what defines people.

  7. It’s all about being treated with respect and taken as adult. Only adult males are treated as real adult, with their beards and even baldness being status symbols, which is why the most patriarchal cultures require men to be bearded. Women look closer to immature males (less hair, smaller, higher voices, etc.) and so are treated as not fully adult. Intelligence and compassion and empathy don’t count.
    I hadn’t really thought that part of taking testosterone for young women is to look older and to get more respect. But you are absolutely right, Gallus.
    How horrible for that woman to buy that grotesque pretend prick. And then to show it.
    Most of women’s studies classes have been taken over by men and turned into “gender studies,” so I can’t imagine they will be good for girls or women.
    You’re right, yttik, women are always pressure to and expected to alter ourselves, no matter what —

  8. “I hadn’t really thought that part of taking testosterone for young women is to look older and to get more respect.” Yes, I hadn’t thought of that one either!
    The same goes on later in life as well. When I was reading about Pat Califia and her ‘transition’, what came across really strongly was that her options seemed to be:
    A) post-menopausal woman — invisible, and no use to anybody
    B) grey-haired older man — authority figure.
    Hence she put on the meat-suit and opted for B.
    Let’s face it, apart, say, from a short-term special status when visibly pregnant, men and boys just get more respect at any age. Boy babies get treated differently to girl babies, and so on from there. Even boys being seen as more prone to trouble or bad behaviour is seen as their endearing innate ability to be more out-going, risk-taking etc etc. Whilst girls are good and quiet and no trouble.
    “You’re right, yttik, women are always pressure to and expected to alter ourselves” yes, and to fit the male-constructed idea as to what ‘woman’ or female is — which is exactly the same thing that M2T are doing. So no wonder that however hard they try or however well they think they pass as women (i.e. to male eyes), we ain’t buying it (femininity) either the version we were sold, or the version they present as living shop-dummies of the patriarchy.
    (Interesting personal link there, the autons in Dr Who scared me terribly as a child! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Auton).

  9. It’s ironical, though, that while I’m getting hit with openly ageist comments online recently from “feminists” like I have never experienced before, in some ways I’m now treated with more respect by strangers, as an older, very obvious Dyke, than I did when I was younger. (It’s upsetting that it’s only a few certain “feminists” and the trannie cult/MRAs who are openly making ageist comments to me. I expect the men to be like that, but feminists? Their goal is the same though — to wipe me out and stop my writing and political work.)
    I’m curious if other feminists are getting this. I notice many avoid saying their ages though. Meanwhile, I’m not getting this from Lesbians and women in person. And what is the surprise is being treated with more respect by men and het womenin public (who I don’t know) than I ever have experienced previously. Older het men in this area, who have gone from being at the pinnacle of privilege, now seem to see me as an ally in being oppressed for being older. I certainly have never thought of men as an ally before, so it’s very odd.
    But I guess what I am trying to say, is that while openly, obvious Dykes get so oppressed as we get older, I think we might actually have the experience of being treated as real people for the first time, as opposed to the older women pretending to be male, or even the older women who look very male-identified feminine and het. (In both cases, they are increasing artificiality in how they appear — the feminine women with altering themselves with plastic surgery, heavier make-up, strange hair styles, etc, the F2Ts with hormones, surgery, facial piercings, etc.
    Anyway, Pat Califia had so much status and power compared to most older Lesbians, that it’s strange she would prefer being a bald old man. Oh, I forgot, she has to if she wants to try to get sexual access to gay men, which she has glorified in her rape-focused pornography for many years.

  10. This whole self-erasing, self-mutilating thing by young dykes is so depressing to me that I can’t watch the videos or read the comments. I think of all the young, strong, proud dykes I knew in my youth — before this insanity took hold — and I just feel sick — physically ill — to think of them lopping off their breasts, sticking plastic dicks in their underwear and injecting T.
    It’s a horror show.

    1. Another sad thing is the health problems they could/can/will face. But because there are no studies or just a few/no people who tell the girls exactly what long term consequences await the self-erasing is not going to stop – at least not before the long term effects are brought to the light. But I could be wrong and everyone knows the consequences well and ignores them (which would be just stupid). Are the health problems already public? Does anyone of you know this?

      1. Here’s a laundry list of negative side-effects:
        T is NOT good for biological females: increased PCOS, abdominal obesity, Type II Diabetes, cardiovascular disease, strokes, endometrial cancer, obstructive sleep apnea. More oily skin, thickened skin, acne, liver damage, etc. etc. etc.
        I think it’s CRIMINAL to inject young women and girls with T.
        Whatever happened to “First, do no harm.” ???

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