20 thoughts on “The STEREOTYPING definition of "Gender Identity"

  1. Can’t we just call “trans women” the very scientific term “crazy people” and have done with it?
    I’m not comfortable with indulging them AT ALL. Not even a little bit.
    Even the “alternative definition” misses the mark, in my opinion. Why are we pandering in this way to this particular mental illness? Do we pander to people who think they’re really Cleopatra? Or really a dog? Or really from Planet X?

    1. It’s true, this pamphlet basically says that any dude with a doctor’s note can go into whatever female-only spaces he wants whether females want him there or not. I think what Hungerford is trying to do with this is remove some of the anti-female, sexist, sex-stereotyping language and framing from these “gender laws”. Presumably the better long-term solution for females would be to simply cover genderists under existing laws which prevent discrimination based on SEX, not “sex-role”/”gender”.
      As was done in this case in December:

      1. This brochure also seems geared to a very specific legal matter, specifically the total lack of qualifiers for the legal definitions of “sex-role stereotype identity” and “cross sex role stereotype expression” (Gender Identity and Expression) that are being passed willy nilly to the detriment of current and future generations of females, who are oppressed by the very sex-role stereotypes being legally/governmentally protected and promoted by these laws.
        We need MORE pamphlets and materials such as the one I’ve linked to above, other ones that are not so tightly focused on a particular legal issue – that can be used more broadly to educate legislators, social justice activists, and the general public on the BROADER issues involved in the sex stereotyping of genderism and the ways in which this is harmful to women.
        But this one is very useful for those facing imminent Gender Identity legislation in their communities who want to begin a conversation on why an overbroad legal definition of Gender Identity is so harmful for females, and I think E Hungerford did a great job and I am grateful that she and others are doing this kind of work.

      2. You raise some excellent points, GallusMag, but this whole matter still leaves me feeling vaguely like I’ve entered a foot race already hobbled and forced to carry a big iron weight.
        They really got out in front of me and a lot of other women before we realized what was happening. I guess when you have male privilege, an obsession/fetish and LOTS of free time on your hands, it’s hard for women with jobs, families, health issues, day-to-day survival issues, etc. to keep up.
        I’m still back at the “What the heck?” stage and they’ve already captured the power of legislators, governors, corporate HR departments, etc.
        How in the heck did THAT happen?!? That’s what I keep asking myself.
        When did the the absolute NEED of women and girls for safe, private, female-only spaces become secondary to the whims of crazy people?! When did pretending to go along with their insanity become a requirement for employment in Washington State?!?
        The whole “trans” mess is mind boggling in its outrageous sexism and utter disregard for everything women have fought for over the past umpty-zillion years. I expected a War on Women from cretins like Limpbaugh, Santorum, Randall Terry and Troy Newman. I didn’t expect it from female, supposedly “progressive” Democratic Party legislators or so-called “lesbian and gay” groups.
        I am grateful to anyone who is trying to counter their influence over society and government, but part of me just wants to get up on a rooftop and scream, “WHY are we pandering to CRAZY?”

  2. Hi Rose Verbena, I totally understand your frustration and appreciate your feedback. Gallus did an excellent job explaining the brochure’s intent and it sounds like you have some appreciation of how FAR BEHIND we are in this figurative foot race.
    We are “pandering to CRAZY,” as you put it, because transsexualism EXISTS. In my humble opinion, is a PERMANENT legal reality. This “reality” is created NOT by anti-discrimination legislation, but by VITAL RECORDS regulations that permit male bodied persons who have undergone SRS (or less!) to have their legally identifying documentation REVISED to show the sex opposite the one they were assigned at birth. I am talking about birth certificates, passports, social security cards, and drivers licenses. <<THIS is how legal status:female is created. It was being created before I was born. It’s been going on for DECADES. Harry Benjamin, etc.
    My primary goal is to keep “gender” or “gender identity” (as evidenced by compliance with sex stereotypes) from becoming confused with–or literally REPLACING–SEX on a legal basis. BECAUSE:
    1> Females require very specific legal protections for our unique reproductive functions (ie, pregnancy discrimination, breast feeding accommodations by employers, abortion access, birth control, sex-segregated bathrooms, etc). As a result, it is critical that the legal category of “sex” be UNDERSTOOD as a reproductive reality.
    2> Females deserve anti-discrimination protection from sex *stereotyping.*
    So my purpose is really a DEFENSE of the legal category “sex,” as opposed to the elimination of transsexualism itself.

    1. I hear and understand your position. However, I take a MUCH more radical view.
      I don’t believe in “transexualism” as it is being presented in society today. I think that human beings are no more “transsexual” than they are “transspecies” or “transabled” or any other “trans” hokum.
      For 99% of these folks, what they are experiencing is nothing more or less than a mental disorder and as such they deserve access to mental healthcare, treatment, anti-OCD medications, etc. just like any other person with a serious mental illness. However, they are NOT entitled to change their sex on birth certificates, passports or driver’s licenses. Nor are they entitled to FORCE others to go along with their madness!
      In the vanishingly rare cases where a child is intersex or hermaphroditic at birth then it MIGHT make sense that they disagree with the sex they were coerced into via reparative surgery as an infant or small child.
      However, the very idea that a man in his 50’s with fully functioning male sex organs and every kind of male secondary sex characteristic — an entire biology that perfectly matches his XY chromosomes — can just ANNOUNCE that he has a “girl spot” in his brain, that everyone at work must now address him as “she” or risk losing their jobs for “discrimination”, that he now gets to change his ID, enter women’s locker rooms and showers, declare himself a lesbian and insist that lesbian’s “see” him as female, join and enter any kind of women’s private and safe space including women’s rape crisis centers and battered women’s shelters, etc. is INSANITY. It’s walking, breathing INSANITY and I won’t pander to it any more than I’d pander to a 50-year-old man announcing that he’s “really a cat” or that he’s “really Napoleon” or “really from Mars”.
      We don’t pander to schizophrenics in the workplace. We don’t pander to schizophrenics at the Department of Motor Vehicles. We don’t pander to schizophrenics at the passport office. WHY are we pandering to these DUDES at the workplace, the DMV, the passport office? Why? Because there are not enough people calling bullshit. Well, I call bullshit. Steaming, heaping loads of it.
      If some DUDE wants to wear a dress to work, that’s none of my business. If he insists that I call him “she” and I can LOSE MY JOB for refusing to pander? Then it becomes my business!
      He can wear a girdle and sit down to pee if he wants. I don’t care. but if he insists on showering with me at the city pool’s open-plan women’s showers? Then I do care. I care very, very much! No freaking way.
      I don’t understand how it got this far, but I’ve had enough and I’m seriously considering my legal options, up to and including some kind of citizen’s referendum to repeal these ridiculous laws, for all the reasons you mentioned PLUS the fact that sane human beings SHOULD NOT be required by law to pander to the insane. That’s morally and ethically indefensible territory.

  3. Rose and Elizabeth–I don’t think you are working at cross-purposes in any way. Elizabeth’s work, as I see it, is aimed at stopping any further erosion of women’s rights, vis-a-vis the codification of gender stereotyping through this tranz* rights legislation. And Rose, your stance, like mine, is radical–Elizabeth may even have the same political viewpoint, but that isn’t what this particular work of hers is about. I, too, hope that we can eliminate his whole insane business. It is the most backward, looney take on sex and gender that I have ever seen. The craziest part is that the medical world is promoting it–for money, of course–and that the ‘liberal’ bunch is on their side. But I honestly think they really DON’T UNDERSTAND WHAT THIS MEANS FOR WOMEN, OR WHAT IT MEANS TO FEMINISTS.
    We all have a lot of work to do–thanks to Gallus for bringing us together !

    1. Hi Kitty and Rose,
      I’m sorry I missed replying more promptly to your comments! I think we share the same interests re: protecting females and resisting male definitions of what constitutes “woman.” As Kitty says, my purposes are specifically LEGAL. My personal views are not fully captured by this work, but I sincerely appreciate your support for the *legal* arguments I’m making against gender-stereotyping-as-substitute-for-legal-sex.
      Unfortunately, the law cannot stop people from being assholes! I wish it could– then ALL our problems would be solved. HA! ๐Ÿ™‚ The law also cannot stop men from using whatever words they want to describe themselves, even if we think it’s offensive and insulting. The law merely sets standards for community conduct. Many times these standards are not enforced. But I see a desperate need to fight against NEW laws that will effectively UNDO and/or CONFLICT with existing legal protections for females. That is my purpose. I am trying to stop new sources of bleeding– then we can start cleaning up the mess we have on our hands. Actually, I’m sure that these tasks can work simultaneously to compliment each other. It’s just that my focus, as a lawyer, is on the legal aspects.
      Thanks again for reading the brochure and responding. Any suggestions for improvements that will help non-internet-feminists understand are always welcome!

  4. Yes, thank you GallusMag, and thank you, too, E Hungerford.
    My concern is very visceral right now; it has risen to the level of panic and revulsion for two reasons:
    1) Seeing how “trans women” are being allowed to verbally, politically and even physically ATTACK feminists — even our elder feminist icons — with little or no social repercussions because everyone is stepping all over themselves to be nice to the poor, downtrodden “trans women” lest they be forever branded “transphobic”; and
    2) Having (within the past few years) been briefly stalked by a truly scary “trans woman” who hinted darkly at suicide or other violent outcomes (!) when I rejected HIS advanced to be my “lesbian lover”, and then learning that it wasn’t just a one-off weird encounter that I experienced — they do this to other women all the time, here and in Canada, the UK and other countries. WTW?!?
    I have observed an uptick in the news of violent trash talk and outright violence coming from “trans women” and directed at anyone who calls them “he”, women in general, and natural-born women feminists in particular, whom they see as their mortal enemies!
    The ‘logic’ I was exposed to very recently on HuffPo and also on some other sites goes something like this:
    a) We “trans women” have been very oppressed;
    b) A lot of us have committed suicide due to our oppression; therefore
    c) If anyone disagrees with us or tries to thwart us in any way, they are ***really trying to kill us***; therefore
    d) Anyone who disagrees with us is our mortal enemy, and it’s OK to do whatever you want to a mortal enemy, up to and including violent threats, beatings and murder.
    They are declaring war on feminism, radical feminists and especially radical lesbian feminists. I got banned from one website just for logically, scientifically countering some of their most sexist, outrageous claims (no name-calling or personal attacks.) Then I did a bit of research and learned that I could not just be banned from websites that pander to “trans”, but I could also LOSE MY JOB for the “thought crime” of refusing to use female pronouns when referring to a “trans woman” at work. When did that happen?!?
    When people are threatening you with loss of your job, loss of your freedom of speech, loss of your personal safety, loss of your physical privacy and possibly even loss of your life JUST because you won’t go along with and pander to their mental illness, we’ve come much too far, in my opinion, to continue placating, being “nice” and keeping silent on the fundamental issue that THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS TRANS in real life. It doesn’t exist in the real world any more than women who are “really penguins” or men who are “really chairs” exist in the real world.
    The fact that they keep pushing, pushing, pushing and becoming more and more aggressive in their violent hate-speech and threats towards radical feminists brings me to the conclusion that there will never be ENOUGH for them. These radicalized “trans-activists” truly thrive on and feed off of the rejection and revulsion they get from women who don’t want to be around them and don’t buy in to their madness. As a result, they will KEEP PUSHING to get their weird, creepy, sadomasochistic fix from women any way they can. Going where they are not wanted — where they cause distress, even anguish among natural-born women — is a large part of their disease. I believe that they get off on distressing women in the exact same way that sick men get off on distressing women via voyeurism, up-skirt photos, peeping in bedroom windows and dirty phone calls — and worse.
    Pandering to them in any way feels like capitulating to a rapist, a psycho-spiritual rapist who will NEVER stop unless we stand up to them and tell them, unequivocally, “No.”

    1. I agree, no amount of acquiescence or “affirmation” will ever be enough. They are fighting that little voice in their head that says “This is bullshit. Sex exists.” And no amount of pandering will ever be enough to make fiction reality. And yes to the inherent desire for predation of females – outright female hatred- in much of the genderist canon. Yes, yes, and yes.
      Thank you for a powerful comment.

      1. Exactly, GallusMag! Even they know that “sex exists” but they are projecting all this rage at women because they also know that they will never, ever possess what they desire.
        Therapy, medication and, if necessary, incarceration of the abusive ones. There’s no other way to deal with people who are that committed to externalizing and projecting their madness onto innocents.
        When has pandering ever worked as a long-term “solution” to insanity? Never.

  5. Here’s a final word on what they think of ALL 2nd wave feminists who don’t kowtow to their agenda. While I don’t agree with everything put out by the 2nd wave(and am a 2nd waver myself, AND ALWAY”S WILL BE), I AM 100% in agreement in relation to the observation of the trans phenomena…BECAUSE WE SEE AND CALL IT AS IT IS: A BUNCH OF MALE DEFINED AND OBSCURING BULLSHIT TO HAVE ACCESS TO LESBIAN BODIES, WOMYN’S MYSTERIES, AND WOMONHOOD ITSELF. IN THE CASE OF FTM’S TO TRY TO GET INTO THE MAN CLUB WHERE THEY WON’T HAVE TO TAKE ON THE BURDENS OF STEREOTYPED AND LIMITING WOMANHOOD.!!!!!
    I just don’t understand why women put down all second wave feminists, and women who SEE THROUGH how the tranz phenomena so thoroughly compromises bio females, and Lesbians in particular, and completely invisibilizes our issues, our needs and our oppressions for their VERY MALE agendas.
    So here’s their own words in relation to the current controversy at the mixed Pagan conference Pantheacon and insisting on the elimination of Dianic WBW only workshops: “Desiree Arceneaux wrote:
    Indeed. Daly was Raymond’s doctoral advisor and mentor, so she played an instrumental role in facilitating Raymond’s thesis and then helping expand said thesis into Raymond’s first book — a book which is nothing less than the _Mein Kampf_ of feminist bigotry against trans women.”
    So once again, we’re compared to Hitler…for seeing through this male bullshit that so benefits bio males for their access to women, lesbians and so called ‘womanhood’. And the whining they are currently doing on calling Lesbians ‘transphobic’ because they won’t fuck MTF’s and that an MTF with a penis is still a ‘woman with a penis’ because they so KNOW they are women! What fucking insanity! And yet Lesbians know that FTM’s aren’t really ‘men’ which is why these days they are so interchangeable with us Butches…..especially the young ones and others who state in their ads or preferences “Into Butches/FTMs”, while they’ll insist on MTF rights as ‘women and transwomen’ and put down wbw spaces, they WON’T fuck ’em cuz in their guts they KNOW they are really men!

  6. We get shit on cuz we have that Crone like all seeing clear eyed VISION that MTF’s are essentially and biologically male despite their feminine trappings and surgeries, and that FTM’s are essentially female, despite the same… though that doesn’t mean that FTM’s aren’t tainted with their new male appearance and that taste of male privilege: AS LONG AS THEY CONTINUE TO ‘PASS’ FOR MALE. But should they get found out by biological males….for sneaking into the man club…there will be hell to pay.

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