What’s up with Toronto Sherbourne Health Center threatening Lesbians?

“Ex-Lesbian” Mental Health counselor Xander “Sly” Sarkisova posted to The Scavenger a list of what she called “quite clearly inappropriate, and sometimes abusive behaviour on the part of some friends, family, lovers and partners of trans people. The following behaviours go beyond mere ignorance of trans issues and land squarely in the category of harming others”. [sic]
Well that’s all well and good. We all have a responsibility to speak out against abuse, especially those in the healing professions.
You can read them for yourselves and see what you think. But what stood out to me and every other Lesbian was number 10, the last of the list:
10) Refusing to date trans women, especially those who identify with having cocks, or who haven’t had “bottom surgery” particularly if you identify as lesbian. Viewing dating a trans woman as some form of accomplishment and indication that you have challenged transphobia.

What is wrong with this?

Tying your refusal to date trans women with your lesbian identity reifies your inability to see trans women for who they truly are. It denigrates their identity and presentation and signals your perception that they are “less than” women.
It is not an accomplishment to see someone for who they truly are (especially related to gender) – it is a basic ability as a human.
Furthermore, if you are into rubber cocks and penetration yet you refuse to date trans women with cocks, penises, or pussies that are different from yours you are arbitrarily discriminating against these women based on their transness or transsexuality (credit to Alaska b. for this point).

What can I do differently?

Don’t talk about how rad you are for crushing on or dating trans women. Don’t treat or talk about it with friends as some kind of new project for yourself.
Start to deconstruct some of your transmisogyny and how your behaviour is not tied to a lack of desire, but rather your unwillingness to validate transfemale realness.
Do work around unpacking the “cis” male privilege you are incorrectly transposing on trans female bodies, whether they have cocks or not.”
Whoa, WHAT? Lesbian refusal to date people with cocks is inappropriate and abusive to people with cocks? Lesbians should “deconstruct” their lack of desire for cock? Whaaaaat?????
Refusing to date people with cocks is inappropriate and abusive “particularly if you are lesbian” “? What on earth? Is that the most homophobic thing you have ever heard? That Lesbians who don’t want cock are “inappropriate and abusive”, and that Lesbians should “deconstruct” our lack of desire for dick and that our dick eschewing is not related to a lack of desire for dick, but our “unwillingness to validate transfemale realness”?
What sort of mental health provider would advise Lesbians to ignore their lack of desire for penis and advocate that they have sex with dicks they do not desire, lest they offend the penis owner? What sort of Lesbian corrective reparative rape type sicko “therapy” is this? What sort of mental health provider would tell any woman to have sex that they do not desire? What sort of therapist would instruct Lesbians that sexual orientation to female bodies is not okay? What sort of mental health provider would tell Lesbians that liking penetration from a partner means they like penis? What kind of horrendous mental health advice is dismissing women’s lack of sexual desire out of concern for the sexual urges of the males who want them? And why “particularly” for Lesbians, instead of say, straight men who also don’t want cock? Pure blatant homophobia and female-hatred.
This hateful anti-Lesbian sexist homophobia is disgusting- just awful coming from a mental health provider. But this story gets worse. Much much worse.
A Lesbian left a comment on Xander Sarkisova’s blog post stating that it is homophobic and re-dick-ulous to tell Lesbians that it’s not okay to forgo the peen. The comment was left in moderation and unpublished. Hours later, the Lesbian got an incredible message from an unrelated Feminist Blogger. They had received a bizarre threatening comment from a representative of the Toronto Sherbourne Health Center which called out the Lesbian by name, warning her they knew where she lived, and publishing her private home address, along with menacing commentary about her being “vapid and soulless” and the Sherbourne Health Center representative’s “homeboy”. What???? The Lesbian could not imagine why the Toronto Sherbourne Health Center would do such a thing! Well, surprise surprise, Xander “Sly” Sarkisova claims to work at the Sherbourne Health Center. Apparently she sent out the threatening, stalkery abusive comment on her work computer, terminal at the Toronto Sherbourne Health Center.
Why did she do that? Because the “ex-lesbian” was angry that a Lesbian would take issue with her homophobia. So she stalked her, and threatened her, from her computer terminal at her employers Toronto Sherbourne Health Center, where she claims to be employed helping people.
The homophobia of “specifically” Lesbians needing to get over their “lack of desire” for cock wasn’t bad enough, she had to stalk and threaten a woman as a representative of the Toronto Sherbourne Health Clinic.
Note to abusive stalkers of Lesbians like Xander Sarkisova: If you really need to threaten Lesbians because they disagree with your opinion that Lesbians should learn to love the cock, and you intend to abuse them and stalk them to their home, and post that information online, best not to do it on your work computer.
I have screencaps of everything. I’m holding back on posting until I ascertain if the woman wants to sue the Toronto Sherbourne Health Clinic for threatening her and her family.

0 thoughts on “What’s up with Toronto Sherbourne Health Center threatening Lesbians?

  1. God!! What an asshole! Seriously that’s the only way to describe that “ex lesbian”. This reminds me of a screencap I read over at Dirts blog. There was a ftm complaining that gay men didn’t want her. But we know in trans world male and female sex don’t exist except in da brain. It’s all about jendah and stuff. So you stupid lesbian go and suck that other lesbians dick! And the transphobic gay men should be ashamed! That’s how you fight twanzphobia (not!!)

  2. Gallus Mag, my first response on reading that it’s “transphobic” for lesbians not to want to fuck people with cocks was to roll around on the floor laughing.
    But you’re right, this is actually serious that lesbians are being pressured and harassed in this way. And I got more of the seriousness when I read further down – this kind of stalkery and bullying is a major problem.
    Huge issue also that the author thinks the potential danger to women of penetrative sex with lesbians and penetrative sex with penises is the same.
    The other issue that stands out like a sore thumb is that the author clearly treats the sexuality of non-trans women as social property – or their refusal to make their sexual services available (as the author clearly sees it) to trans women couldn’t be treated as “discrimination”.
    This is such an appalling echoing and reinforcement of the misogynist attitudes to women – that “if she’ll sleep with him, why shouldn’t I have her too” proprietorship over women’s sexuality – that you’d think more trans activists would have picked up on this and commented and criticised the heck out of it. (I see this is a recent article so I hope it’ll still happen.)
    So, why haven’t they (yet) – gotta think this is because of the confusion of where a lot of trans activism is targetted. Unlike many movements which pose specific demands aimed at realising human rights and better conditions – trans activism seems unhealthily aimed at demanding that everyone agree that gender is inherent rather than socially constructed/imposed. (Of course, not all trans activists do, but too many do, including those who aren’t very explicit about it, and perhaps don’t realise that’s what they’re doing.) Which somehow seems to translate into hatred of women who don’t reinforce this idea.
    Personally I don’t confront people on their self-perceived gender because I don’t think it achieves much and I don’t really care how they self-express so long as it doesn’t hurt anyone else (and I am sympathetic to the harm done by social messages that boys and girls inherently behave differently).
    But I think the effective demand that everyone agree on ‘gender’ is extremely damaging to women’s interests.

  3. What the fucking fuck?!! Here, “Xander,” I’ll explain it to you: I DO NOT EXIST TO MAKE TRANS PEOPLE FEEL BETTER ABOUT THEMSELVES. Get it? Got it? Fucking GOOD.
    And the stalking?! You know, I wish I could say I was shocked, but unfortunately I’m not, after witnessing all the bullying tactics that trans people have employed (especially with lesbians) over the last several years. This certainly merits employment termination, but I doubt we’ll see that happen.
    What a total, complete, well-rounded, abusive asshole.

  4. this is disgusting and abusive.
    i hope that if the lesbian woman this is happening to decides to sue, she gets a HUGE win.
    something else that is also bugging me: “It denigrates their identity and presentation and signals your perception that they are “less than” women.”
    why do some trans activists automatically assume a “less than” judgement, rather than a “just different” judgement? the fact that a peen is not a vagina, or that a surgical model of a vagina is different to an actual/biological vagina does not somehow make it inherently worse, or not-as-good. why do they think “different” is somehow less? (doesn’t that denigrate two-spirit people, hijras and so on by the way? that’s pretty transphobic.)
    also – there’s a reason it’s called “sexual orientation” and not “gender orientation”. i can’t believe how regularly and stupidly people mix up “gender” and “sex”.

  5. OMG. WTH? I’m speechless.
    “…but rather your unwillingness to validate transfemale realness.”
    Can I just say that as a woman I get real tired of being expected to validate everybody else. I mean, who the hell died and decided it was my job to validate the needs and expectations of every single damn person in the world?

  6. Can Dr. Lori Ross and the other health professionals at this clinic be sued if the babies born by FtTs (who took testosterone before becoming pregnant) are deformed, or are brain damaged or found to be otherwise disabled in later years of childhood? Compare to thalidomide research. How much did the researchers know then? They knew just about everything. How much does Lori Ross know now?

  7. How many trans people have this opinion, exactly? I remember that dreadful post by Vexing on Feministing.
    Rapist does as rapist speaks so every woman should keep away.

    1. Ooo, I altered that last line a bit.
      “Rapist does as rapist speaks, so every womin away keep.”
      I’m thinking of making that into a sticker now.

  8. Coercing, pressuring and forcing females to have PIV against their free will and choice is called RAPE. So basically, SCAMs and their puppet Xander advocate corrective rape for lesbians? What I advocate is that we petition the Toronto Sherbourne Health Center for the removal of Xander “Sly” Sarkisova as a counselor on the grounds of stalking, harassment, homophobia, and advocating corrective male rape and violence against females/lesbians.

    1. Lucky, you are absolutely right, except Sly is not male, no matter how much he thinks or insists he is.
      Please create a petition as you propose, online, and please allow me to be the FIRST to sign it.
      Seriously, would you create an online petition, and provide us with the link?
      If you don’t want to, let me know, and I will.
      What Sly wrote is to silence, frighten, and intimidate womyn, “especially lesbians,” into not resisting RAPE.
      The Sherbourne Toronto Health Center needs to hear THUNDEROUS, widespread public outcry–beginning with your petition–to ensure that Sly is fired and to ensure that they are not in the least perceived as condoning pressuring women and lesbians into resisting RAPE, from a person calling themselves trans, or anyone else.

  9. Blech. I worded that wrong. It should read: Xander “Sly” Sarkisova should be removed as a counselor on the grounds of stalking, homophobia and advocating that females, particularly lesbians, submit to rape by males and violence against women.

  10. Thank you SO much for this, Gallus. Of all the cons and lies and crap from the trans cult, this really encapsulates the entire issue: trans is as female-hating and Lesbian-hating as can be. How dare they try to guilt trip and manipulate Lesbians into going het with these disgusting men?
    I am a Lesbian because I love other females. From my earliest memories I loved other females. I refused all the pressure from religion, family, culture, school, friends, men, etc. to be intimate with men. So why would I want to now just because some man is fetishizing and caricaturizing us?
    Every arrogant thing they do just proves again how very male they are.
    Yes, liberationislife, it really is about the assumption that all females belong to men. They just never let go of trying to get access to Lesbians. When Lesbians defend these men, I say, “How are they different from the other het men who would go to Lesbian bars to leer at us, and to try to rape us when we leave?”
    No man has the right to appropriate our identity. “Self-expressing self-perceived gender” like this does hurt all females — very much.

  11. I’m pretty sure the author of the article is a trans man. Which makes the assertion that lesbians are obliged to fuck anyone with a cock who identifies as a woman that much worse, really.
    But I do think there’s a question to consider – as we know, there are trans-identified people who really are feminist allies and have publicly advocated for women’s right to decide how we organise against our oppression – whether or not that ends up meaning they’re included. And don’t go in for bullying women to have sex with others out of a sense of social duty.
    So what’s the difference in their politics and the politics of the trans misogynists? Increasingly it seems that acknowledging basic points of reality (eg trans women are not biologically female) is seen as transphobic.
    Or preferring a structuralist approach to women’s liberation over ‘playing with’/ endorsing ‘gender’ as inherent is seen as transphobic.
    So the problem seems to be a basic lack of feminist analysis/ understanding. Which a few trans activists have, but too many lack.
    Which is a concern as to how to turn this around, because the definition of ‘transphobia’ has seemed to expand lately. And one wonders where it will stop – and I feel we have to stop this.

    1. “…acknowledging basic points of reality (eg trans women are not biologically female) is seen as transphobic…”
      That’s it in a nutshell. Reality is “transphobic”.
      Me? I choose reality.

  12. In my country, feminine gays and butches are encouraged to transition especially for the feminine gays since we don’t have surgeries for transmen yet the lesbians that transition or live as men use hormones but even if they transition they cannot change their names, I really feel this trend has to stop.

  13. The real hallmark of men is their constant desire to have sexual access to ALL women. You never hear lesbians talking like this. I would never expect het women to have sex with lesbians, for example, because they are het.
    Men aren’t capable of love, but they do obsess about sex with women, and hate it when women set NO MEN NO PENIS sexual boundaries. Any trans who goes on about this is just out for attention, shock value and rape fantasies.
    I have met a few trans MTTrans who seem to be sincere in their fights for women’s rights, but these Internet types are just weird. I have yet to hear a MtTrans who will say clearly, MtTrans have no right to invade lesbian only space, however.

    1. > I have met a few trans MTTrans who seem to be sincere in their fights for women’s rights, but these Internet types are just weird. I have yet to hear a MtTrans who will say clearly, MtTrans have no right to invade lesbian only space, however.
      Well, here’s one.
      I firmly believe in the right of _all_ people to freely associate with – and without – whomever they choose. If those who control a space ask me not to be there (either directly, or as a policy), I will gladly respect that. All I ask in return is the same respect in return.

      1. “Well, here’s one.”
        I guess there are more people like you. But I’ve never see them take a stance against controversial things in the T community. Why is that so? Are they too scared? If yes then why? Do you know it?

      2. > But I’ve never see them take a stance against controversial things in the T community. Why is that so?
        I have seen enough hedonistic, misogynistic, and otherwise stupid stuff in the community that I simply don’t associate with it generally. I don’t do pride, I don’t go to centers, I don’t have any trans friends.
        I’m trying to push for equality for same-sex relationships, including at work, but they don’t know I’m trans. In public, I’m an advocate for marriage equality (which will benefit trans people too), but that doesn’t really put me in a position to fight the behavior of the T community.
        When I go to trans forums, I’m quickly moderated or banned because I’m “inflammatory”, or because I refuse to validate someone as a simple matter of self-identity. When everything about someone screams “male” – attitudes, body, sense of entitlement – I refuse to call them female (though I will use their name). That doesn’t really get me a lot of brownie points.
        Those like me aren’t so much scared as unwelcome in many trans circles, unless we “drink the kool-aid”, or tread extremely carefully. One need only look at how the crime of “misgendering” is tantamount to genocide – coming from someone in “the community” adds betrayal on top of it. So I, and those like me, stay away.
        I am a member of a private forum; I was once a relatively active member. As time went on, I noticed a trend – relatively normal people moved on with their lives, and transition mostly became something they did, not who they are.
        For those who stayed behind, many had the attitude of “if I can’t pass, I’ll go into activism”. They felt they needed validation, but couldn’t get it, so they make dozens of picture threads where everyone lies to each other about how “good” they look, but it’s empty because nobody can believe it. How can they trust someone else to be honest when they have lied to others to make them feel better themselves? When they couldn’t find it there, many took to the proverbial streets – looking for people they could get to validate them – by argument, by deception, by coercion if necessary.
        I tried to help, to move people away from the groupthink, but all it got me was pain. When I offered assistance to help move people out of bad situations, I ended up used, and hurt, and lied to. When I spoke up, I was argued with, harassed, and at the end of the day my opinions were dismissed because if I’m right, even slightly, then their world view is wrong, and that is scary.
        So, I took my life, and I left. I met someone wonderful, and we share a life together, without a whole lot of trans-related drama. Many of my earlier friends have done similar – work, education, family, travel, art. Some get to experience harms directed at women, and try to help make it better. But the community is toxic, and we stay away from it.
        I went looking for a site that would permit me to comment, where I felt I might be able to offer a slightly different perspective, and where I could criticize the crap that trans people pull. That’s why I’m here, but most of the people like me just walk away. It’s easier, and less painful.

      3. I’d like to similarly speak up as an MtF who identifies as a lesbian female. I’ve seen a couple people lump the entire trans community into the same boat by the words of the most offensive/loud among us but Xander’s views are most definitely not my own.
        I self identify as a lesbian and as female but I find it offensive when I see any trans person demand someone else’s approval. If another lesbian wants to make the argument that I’m biologically male then she’s fully entitled to and wouldn’t be incorrect in doing so. I personally consider myself emotionally and psychologically female and I really don’t require other people’s acceptance to validate my own views.
        If a woman isn’t interested in me it’s entirely in her right to feel that way and I’m a bit bewildered that someone would argue otherwise. Furthermore, to demand acceptance or inclusion into any group that isn’t meant you is a bit arrogant. Just because I consider myself a lesbian doesn’t mean I demand others do as well and I would never knowingly go into a space that was meant exclusively for biological women.
        As to why we aren’t vocal… I don’t think we have any platform to speak out. As Kathrin says, people with these views are often shunned in many trans communities. To be honest it’s not exactly as if the lesbian or gay communities are all that open either though I understand the source of their defensiveness and think it’s justified considering how many trans men/women have tried to force the issue. It’s hard to make a case for respect when people on both sides of the issue aren’t interested in listening.
        All I’m saying is please don’t make the mistake of assuming that all trans folk agree or share the views of this xander person. Frankly, they’re acting like an ass. I’m sorry that so many in the queer community have such bad experiences with trans individuals. I only hope that the more reasonable individuals of the two communities can come together on common ground rather than in hostility.

  14. Remember, the most controversial thing a woman can do is to say NO to all men. And men will try everything in their power to get sexual access to ALL women, because the males who pretend to be females are still males, and this proves it.

  15. This is rather ridiculous.
    People have all kinds of selection criteria they use for selecting sexual partners. More power to them. If someone doesn’t find me attractive because of my hair color, I’m not going to whine about how they are are “failing to validate me as an auburn”, and are auburnophobes.
    I don’t like lettuce. Does that make me a lettuceophobe?
    Some people don’t like being intimate with people who have a penis. I don’t care one way or the other, but that doesn’t mean that those who do are afraid, or bitter, or man-hating. And even if they were, who cares? That is their right, and nobody has the right to force intimacy against someone else’s will, nor criticize them for the choices they make.

  16. What is so horrible about being called transphobic? It only means one rejects male supremacy/patriarchy, colonization and rapism and supports the female-born as independent, fully autonomous human be-ings which the male-born grant and shower themselves with. They act like that’s a bad thing. A bad thing for whom? Men of course. Oh well, boys, get over it. You’ve lost control and you’re not getting it back no matter how many tricks you try to pull out of your hat.

  17. Unfortunately, the idea that former males respect lesbian only space is invalidated every day of the week.
    So former males do force themselves on lesbian spaces, and do willfully disrespect lesbians who want safe, male free or never male space Katherine.
    People like yourself should actually tell other trans to keep out of lesbian spaces, that would be a good first step. Former males listen to other former males… not big surprise

    1. I’m not so sure that the radicalized, abusive ones listen to reason from anyone.
      The ones I have encountered on-line seem ready and willing to utterly trash _anyone_ who challenges their delusions.

  18. Every time I go to the rest room of a certain gay and lesbian center in town, I have to contend with penis people in the bathroom. And if you are a non-profit, you are actually forced to allow Male to trans into lesbian spaces, even at the expense of lesbians just coming out. Imagine being a young lesbian who then has to deal with male to trans actually leading something called a “Lesbian drop in group?” Michigan is another example of male to trans run roughshod over women’s space, and I don’t see male to trans defending the lesbian right to be left alone by male to trans. It just isn’t being discussed by the trans people, and even those trans people who claim to be feminist think they have a perfect right to co-opt lesbian and women only space. This is real life, real males in dresses (with penis’) doing this. And I don’t see any end in sight. That’s why I say a hallmark of the male mind is NOT RESPECTING women’s boundaries, and violating our spaces… that is what men do all the time. In the past, lesbians were safe because NO MEN were allowed in our spaces, but no the trans invasion has changed it all. It proves that these people are not “female” at all, they are males who take over and don’t respect NO when they hear it verbally or in policy. That’s what is really happening with real life male penis people in dresses.

  19. And it is not an apples to apples comparison to use lettuce as an example. We are talking about women who want rape free, male porn gaze, male free spaces. We want space free of male impersonators, male cross-dressers, and males who claim to be lesbians. Male free is what it means, and no operation changes this.
    Lesbians love women, not people who are castrated. Not men in dresses, not men who “think” they are women.
    Whatever the delusion, whatever the costume, male free space says that women have agency, have power, have land, and privacy, and that all women should have a right to this. Trans have no rights to women’s land or lesbian spaces, and they are actively stalking, invading, in invalidating lesbian lives every day. So go do something about it. Speak up on the trans blogs… but don’t call lesbians lettuce… that is about making women into objects, that IS the male mind at work.

    1. > but don’t call lesbians lettuce… that is about making women into objects, that IS the male mind at work.
      I promise you, that was not my intent. I find the objectification of women abhorrant. My statement was intended to be absurd, but it was to poke fun at those who think that dislike, or simple preference, is equivalent to fear.
      Men have given women reasons to fear them for, well, as long as there have been men. Your right to be with (or without) whomever you wish shouldn’t depend on you needing to be afraid, though. That should be your simple right as a person.
      “I don’t want you here, go away” should be respected – no further justification needed. I just find it absurd that trans people tend to immediately call it “phobia”, when there are so many other reasons not to want them around.

  20. I guess I don’t and can’t truly trust anyone who claims a trans identity because it’s not real. It’s good some say they are respectful of Michigan, for instance, but they can change their politics later or it could just be that it sounds good so they can keep access to us and that they have other priorities. For instance, Elliott, while spewing lies and Lesbian-hating crap in an email also piously said he doesn’t go after Michigan. That’s only because he doesn’t feel like it now.
    No matter how good a man claiming our identity might seem, (and considering the death and rape threats, it wouldn’t take much to seem like the “exceptional trans”), he still is a man saying he’s a woman or Lesbian. It’s not true and not right.
    And yes, “transphobia” as a charge will increase until every female on earth agrees to these men being enshrined as the only true, real women. And even then, those who don’t bow quickly enough will get it.
    I don’t mind what the men call me, but having Lesbian’s yelling their head off at me to shut up because I said at a conference, “I’m not phobic, I’m oppressed by men claiming our identity.” The real problem is how they get women and Lesbians to police us.

    1. > I guess I don’t and can’t truly trust anyone who claims a trans identity because it’s not real. No matter how good a man claiming our identity might seem … he still is a man saying he’s a woman or Lesbian. It’s not true and not right.
      If I may ask a serious question, and I certainly understand if you don’t wish to answer, what do you think of individuals who don’t claim a female identity, because they don’t really believe that much in gender?
      I am trying to figure out where I “fit” in this world (not your problem), but I don’t try to claim anyone’s identity. Because of my voice and how my face looks, people tend to assume I’m female, but I don’t go out of my way to push them that way – I look pretty much like I always did (T-shirt, jeans, no make-up). I stay out of female-only spaces (and pretty much all public restrooms, often painfully), and the activism I do elsewhere is to benefit gay and lesbian individuals. If trans people get helped along the way, oh well.
      I don’t talk about my childhood generally (bad memories), and I won’t pretend to have grown up socialized like females are. I get to experience some of the discrimination, the anxiety, the risk that women face daily, but I will never know what it was like to grow up in that environment. I will always have spent some of my life with a great deal of male privilege, and I know it’s never possible to completely walk away from it. You won’t hear me claim otherwise.
      Would you still consider that to be “claiming your identity”? If so, how can people like me avoid causing you to feel that way? My choices shouldn’t place responsibility or cause harm to others, and I’m trying to make things right as best I can.

  21. hey lettuce phobia, I stand corrected Gallus! What would we do without your sharp eye!
    2012, note to self: taking new reading comprehension test 🙁

  22. How do they get men and lesbians to police us? Simple BevJo, lesbians are just as easily fooled by these MtTrans who can talk a good party line.
    Lesbians will support all causes and peoples above their own. Save the whales… AIDS support for dying men, project angel food delivering food to sick men at home… raising money to end plastic bags… you name it, every cause comes first EXCEPT lesbian nation. And lesbians I think can fall for fads or p.c. stuff that is not in our best interest. Just say you were an ex-vegan who suffered by avoiding meat…. you’ll be attacked by…. lesbians.
    Want to raise money for a lesbian anything…. these days, even gay men give more money to a lesbian run blog than do actual lesbians! True story.
    So the Eliots can terrorize BevJo, but do her lesbian sisters defend her? NOOOOOO, because hey HE is more important than she is.
    It is this lesbian self-hatred that keeps us putting each other last, and keeps us supporting ex-het femms, or het women, or ex-het women with boy children… yeah bring the boys on in to Michigan, forget that the little rapists in training pose a threat to girls…. doesn’t matter because lesbians support everyone and everything BUT our own!

    1. Thank you, Sheila, for writing that. As a lesbian who cares about whales, plastic bags, and Iraqis, Afghanis, and potentially Iranians being murdered for oil, I agree with you. Lesbians always put lesbians last. I find it so difficult to find any lesbians who put us and each other first. And though I live in the most lesbian-coupled county in the U.S., I feel so isolated because all of the lesbians I know support trans. I have no idea where to find offline community here. The only lesbian group I’m involved with offline (and rarely) has a “no politics” policy. It is purely social (meaning conversationally stifling.) But you are right. Lesbians always put lesbians last, and put everything and everyone else first, including ex-het womyn’s sons, etc. All of what you wrote. Thank you.

  23. this stuff scares the crap out ofme because this centre operates in my daughter’s neighbourhood. and she is seeking counselling right now. and healing from male abuse of her mind and body. and the idea that she might get a counsellor telling her she needs to be raped to get over being raped, and thatif she disagrees he will STALK her and hand out her home address! makes me want to vomit like freaking niagara falls! i need to pass this link on to her. and i think she needs to put up flyers all over sherbourne to tell everyone to stay away from this rapist!

  24. I’m what some people would describe as trans. I see some things on here that I don’t agree with. For example, It seems like some people here treat transgenderism as some sort of political ideology. Sure some build a sort of ideology around their identity but I say that the majority of trans people aren’t even aware of this sort of tug-o-war between women who want faab-only spaces and some trans activists. Most transpersons aren’t political in this area, just want a steady job and to get on with living their lives without being ostracized or harmed.
    But getting back to the article. Gallus, when you’re right you’re right. Rule # 10 is… what’s the word.. harmful. One’s right to demand fair treatment STOPS at someone else’s hole, and I don’t like the idea of politicizing who puts what into whom. But I think the point you make could be broader. The Hole-bearer doesn’t even HAVE to be fair, they don’t HAVE to be politically correct, and their reasons don’t HAVE to make sense to you. If someone says to me, “Violet, I could never sleep with you because I only sleep with athsmatic Republican pyromaniacs who eat their potato chips left handed” sure, I would think “Republican? That’s kinda weird” But then I would keep it moving, because I have no choice.

    1. –You are ‘what some people would describe as trans.’ Haven’t you even the integrity to identify who you are?
      –‘some people here treat transgenderism as some sort of political ideology.’ Have you not bothered to read anything at all on this site? Are you that proud of your own ignorance? How feminists treat ‘transgenderism’–whatever that means–is not the issue. The issue is how men treat women. How YOU treat US. If it were not, do you think that we would care at all about what you do? The political ideology that matters here is feminism; ‘transgenderism’ is not an ideology, but a practice. It’s the practice of treating one’s dissatisfaction or unhappiness with the sex one is by changing certain parts of that body to mimic the body of the other sex, the ‘woman’ of the fetishist, intended for the gaze and the use of men, for example, in cases of F2T.
      Feminists understand that this practice is harmful to women. Think about it, you might, too.
      –Your ‘tug-of-war’ is our refusal to be colonized by men, it is the denial of our right to gather with whom we choose, when and where we choose to, it is about our right and our need to distance ourselves from our oppressors. This is not a game. It is our struggle for nothing less than our safety, our liberty, our freedom. Our lives.
      –Maybe you have a ‘hole.’ Women have organs. These organs have names, as well as functions, they are not merely ‘holes.’ Do you not understand the difference? Do you actually mean to say that women have no rights unless it involves a specific part of our bodies? Do you actually believe you are being supportive of women because you agree that we should not be forced to have sex with someone else? That we need not allow ourselves to be RAPED? Thank you so much for this. How generous.
      This is not the entire story. You have a lot to learn. It is not our job to teach you.

      1. Respectfully, Kitty, I think that you fail to see that I’m actually in total agreement with the original post. I’m only here to offer my take on the subject honestly. I think that when I said ‘trans’ perhaps something clicked in your mind like “oh he must be looking for a fight” or perhaps a subconscious need to not find anything positive and whatever I post, but I’m not an enemy I promise! 😉
        At any rate, it seems that you have more of a problem with my terminology than my actual points.
        My tug-of-war comment was not meant to trivialize women’s struggle to any degree, I meant it only as a very generic metaphor for struggle. No other connotations.
        Yes, women have organs, ALL humans do.. but during sex one person or the other is generally entered through a hole. I used the word hole because my point was that regardless of your sex or any other thing that separates two human beings, you alone should be deciding on what terms you sleep with someone, and that any article that suggests “You should sleep with people who..” is full of it.
        I think that if I hadn’t identified myself that way you would have found what I had to say much more palatable.
        Am I being mistaken for that other Violet Gray again? Maybe I DO need to change my screen name..

    2. “The Hole-bearer…”
      Wow. That’s just an astounding, dehumanizing, self obsessed, male dominated way of viewing people, especially women.
      Hole-Bearers. Unbelievable.

      1. I think that if I hadn’t identified myself that way you would have found what I had to say much more palatable.
        No. I don’t think so. That “hole” thing pretty much gave you away. That and the condescention, you know.

      2. Violet says: Yes, women have organs, ALL humans do.. but during sex one person or the other is generally entered through a hole.
        Wow. Just wow. Violet, no. Just no.

    3. “It seems like some people here treat transgenderism as some sort of political ideology. Sure some build a sort of ideology around their identity but I say that the majority of trans people aren’t even aware of this sort of tug-o-war between women who want faab-only spaces and some trans activists. Most transpersons aren’t political in this area, just want a steady job and to get on with living their lives without being ostracized or harmed.”
      Of course, Violet, because men arrogant enough to claim they are women are privileged, AS MALES FROM BIRTH through the end of their lives, have the privilege of being oblivious to virtually all sexism heaped upon women by men. You have the priviilege of not thinking about sexism and sexist ideologies suchas you buy into. That doesn’t mean your ideologies don’t exist: you just have the privilege of not being aware of your ideologies, such as the ideology that men could ever be women or know what it is like to be a woman. Let alone to know what it is like to have just been labeled as having a “hole.”
      GM, can we get that Trans Privilege Checklist post started, please?! And use Violet’s post as Case Study #1?!

  25. But the elephant in the living room here is that trans women look and behave like men. I mean there’s nothing female about them. So if I, as a het woman, am not attracted to your average trans woman because a preoccupation with appearance isn’t sexy to me, why on earth do they think a lesbian would fancy them? 😯 It’s all so confusing.
    Then to say that you’re supposed to have sex with someone you don’t fancy, or you’re being abusive? Ewww. Disgusting.

  26. The same can be said for intersex people as well. Why in the world would intersex people accept twanz as one of us, when in reality, your nothing like intersex people or biological women. They pretend to be women and pretend to be intersex so much, that to them, it’s like a multi-personality disorder that they seem to have.
    It’s very funny, how twanz are demanding, bullying, stalking and even threatening biological women and lesbians. The same can be said for intersex people as well, who are threatened, stalked, harassed and even bullied by twanz people for not accepting them. It just goes to show how manly they are when they don’t get what they want from biological women, lesbian and intersex people. They resort to their inborn male behavior of threatening, stalking, harassing and bullying. It’s a common trait for male born twanz and it’s something they resort to when women, lesbian and intersex people say NO to them.
    It’s an all too common trait for twanz and when people start realizing what twanz people are really all about and what their real true agenda is towards Biological women, Lesbians and intersex people. Society will come to their senses and toss the twanz nonsense out.

  27. Also here is Xander (Sly) Sarkisova’s personal blog and after reading, I almost puked my stomach out.
    http:// xsarkisovathespaceinbetweenyouandme DOT blogspot DOT com/

  28. Not sure if anyone has commented that on the author’s blog (where he also posts this article), a few of the comments were:
    ~ Someone who said they were “a Crisis Intervention Services Coordinator for an anti-violence organization that focuses on domestic violence and sexual assault. I train folks on these issues. This information could be a great resource.”
    ~ Someone who supported the article, identified themself as “a group facilitator for partners”, with the implication that this included some who had transitioned, and said couples need to “process” these issues.
    So there are very real signs (assuming these commenters’ description of their jobs are accurate) that this poisonous advice will be implemented not just by the centre where the author works, but also by others in a position to do very real harm to their clients, who will obviously be in a vulnerable position – allowing access to private matters, and treating these ‘facilitators’ and crisis service workers as authorities.
    I think focussing on this and the intimidation of feminists is the priority, rather than the trans people who don’t support this stuff nor try to deprive women of the right to determine how we organise for liberation.

  29. Organs are not holes. The dehumanization of women’s bodies in that one word boggles the mind.
    Feminists object to appropriation and immitation on the part of males. MTTrans immitate the male idea of what female is, not who a female actually is.
    Just like the male fashion industry creates demand for high heeled shoes, because that is what men want women to wear.
    And women have every right to associate with those who won’t rape them or objectify them, or say their organs are holes. We are not denying the trans basic human rights, we are saying our rights don’t come second to your demands for access to female bodies and spaces. Knowing the history of male rape and objectification of women, and what trans have actually done to invade women’s spaces, and stalk and attack women on the Internet, I’d say we are on to this.
    Feminism as we know it is about women’s rights, women’s self determination, it has nothing to do with what male bodies do to themselves under a knife, it has nothing to do with what men want at all. It is about women putting women first, our health first, and our right to health clinics free of rapists, colonizers and creepos who seem to think that lesbians would want to have sex with men. What part of lesbian illudes these stupid men? And I think het women might be even more horrified by the appropriation of the female body than lesbians sometimes.
    The male mind at work, and its convoluted idea of who has a right to whom simply amazes me.

  30. Bev is right on…. the trans will continue to try to charge radical feminists with transphobia and will continue to attack radical feminist writings, culture and insights. That’s what men do.
    Women will get nowhere placating these people, or giving into their demands to invade and colonize because that is what men do. Nor do radical feminists have to cheer men on in any way, or take our attention off of women…. I think female cheerleading has gotten women nowhere….
    I think Mto Trans should educate other men, should have to challenge male supremacy everywhere—say protest the Vatican policies, protest the male only Augusta country club, protest powerful men’s groups, and protest that male restrooms aren’t safe for MtTrans. Penis people are a real threat to women, and the attacks and demands to invade women’s spaces is just that rape threats to us. Remember MtTrans are men, and have been socialized as colonizers of women. It is not female behavior to invade places you have not been invited to, that is male behavior.

  31. Yes, Kitty. And you know I agree, Sheila and Kitty Barber! I love how you say the truth too. Always so strong and clear.
    Cassaundra, you really bring this back to reality in terms of actual rape threats to females.
    And yes, Kitty and yttik….“The Hole-bearer…Wow. That’s just an astounding, dehumanizing, self obsessed, male dominated way of viewing people, especially women. Hole-Bearers. Unbelievable.”
    Doesn’t that say it all that Violet refers to us as being “hole-bearers”!!! That is all we are to men. That’s also why bisexual men refer to the women pretending to be men as having a “bonus hole” to fuck. If it’s just about us being holes, then of course men can get a pretend hole too. But we know it is so much more, with the biggest divide being mind and heart.
    So we would clearly know who Violet is without his saying. “…but during sex one person or the other is generally entered through a hole.”??!!! Talk about a male and heterosexist mindset. You never heard of Lesbians? Contrary to the porn propaganda, the most intense, incredibly, wild, passionate, and beautiful love-making does not need any hole being entered at all.
    Yes, cherry, “nothing female about them.” Absolutely nothing. They cannot even pretend for a moment.
    It’s dangerous to try to teach them to act more like women because then they will be better at the con. (One M2T told me that the Lesbians in his women’s studies class taught him how to look like a Lesbians, rather than the full drag he was in. He had a wife and kids, and in middle age wanted access to Lesbians. This is one who had his way paid in thousands to the Oakland LGBTetc. conference, but poor Lesbians couldn’t afford the $200 to get in. He was far more of a priority, as as “Lesbian.”

  32. I just can’t get over the fact they think they look and behave like women. THis is me 😯 when I think about that thought. When you’re *actually* a woman, looking at a man with his male aura, male privilege, male crepey skin, male shoulders, male massive hands, it all just seems so silly.

  33. Well I am boiling with anger right now…..
    Some men just can’t take NO for an answer do they?
    The “Refusing to date trans women, especially those who identify with having cocks, or who haven’t had “bottom surgery particularly if you identify as lesbian= transphobia” is one of the most ridiculous reasonings I have ever heard.
    So is this person a mtf?sorry MTT I meant.If so oh well,it just shows how desperate he really got.Yeah he because biological sex DOES NOT CHANGE!
    pS I recently got kicked and banned from a lesbian chatroom in my country because I dared to state than MTF are not women because biological sex does not change.Well what can I say,I AM a biologist and not a queer/gender theorist.Biology studies molecules (the ones that make up the living organisms) and molecules DO NOT change to fit your liking/fantasies etc.

    1. They can’t deal with this kind of science. That’s their weak point. That’s the only thing were you really can dismantling their whole ideology and I hope you will do this. 🙂
      They are like some religious people. Hating you for not worshipping their god or in this case their ideology.

      1. Yeap and that’s an all too common trait with twanz people. They can’t deal with science and biological science. Their way of dealing with it, is either to hide it, deny it exist or lash out at those who speak it and label it as twanzphobic.
        Their whole ideology evolves around their fantasy as if it’s a religion to them.

      2. They certainly can not and so they try to divert your attention to gender (“sure she was born with a penis but she is living as a woman therefore she is a woman”) but I remind them that there is only one valid definition of what a woman is,the biological one.

    1. Wow, that video is right on. Especially noticing that the blog post (and all those who agree with it) is trying to shame lesbians into giving men sexual access. Also, the undertones of corrective rape, and penis-specific harms to women (rather than something like a dildo).
      LOL lesbian rightwing hatemongers.

    2. Lots of really good points made in that video:
      Why isn’t it straight men who are being called into account? Why aren’t straight men, who happen to prefer a woman over a trans woman, because their sexuality is oriented toward *female* bodied people, the target of the article?
      Surely the logical target for accusations of transphobia lie there, not with lesbians?
      (but we all know the reason why: women are an easy target for misogynistic males, and we are just talking about garden-variety men with a rapist mentality here)

  34. Wow. It seems that I was offensive without even trying! 0_0 Please accept my apology. I didn’t mean to come across so crudely, I think that the point made in the original post is an important one, and I certainly don’t intend to distract from it any further.

    1. It really is a “distraction” to have to engage with such overt clueless female-hatred (intended or not) on a feminist blog from a man who has not raised his consciousness and deprogramed his sexism. Both a distraction and a poor use of our resources to have to take the time responding to it.
      Violet, you are such an interesting and talented person. It would be so awesome if you could take responsibility and take the time to educate yourself on women’s issues before engaging with women in this way. I hope you do. Unfortunately my blog is not the place for women to expend energy trying to lead you by the hand. I’m going to have to bid you adieu now. I was going to give you another chance until I saw the eyerolling mansplanation you just submitted, which is now resting comfortably in my spam bin. Take care and good luck.

  35. As a trans lady I dont agree with point 10. I also dont agree with stalking or posting peoples home addresses. But I do understand it. The Sherborne Centre is for trans people. Get over it. What was done to this woman is done to trans people every day. Its about time we start to fight back. BTW we are trans men or women, trans, transgender or transsexual – not trannies – anymore than you are lesbos. Just sayin.

    1. A male takes the time to comment on a feminist blog that he can “understand” the urge to threaten women that don’t want dick. Stop the presses! Of course you can, dear. AND he tries to frame that urge to threaten as some sort of victimized act! The dick-eschewing females are oppressing him! Whoa, never heard that one before. Time to “fight back” with threats against Lesbians for not wanting you, ay?
      Amber, you are a common two-bit homophobic, female-hating, abuse-supporting man and as such you have earned a lifetime ban from this blog. Do not comment here again. Ta!

      1. What, stop the presses. A male identified M2T is commenting in here. That’s a shocker.
        It’s funny how they use their male dick-eschewing to impose on women, lesbians and intersex people in here. Your right one thing Gallus, Amber and the rest of the twanz have female hating within them.

  36. I get that Im banned. What a coward you are. You do realise that no one takes you seriously? Trans people are real, your opinion notwithstanding. Im not insulted, what makes you think I would be interested in your kind of lesbian? Lets face it, you look gross and that has nothing to do with your appearance, it has to do with pride, which you lack. I dont hate you, I pity you. I know you will be able to read this.

  37. Oh and BTW the Sherbornbe Centre, i know his will make you crazy, is a government of CANADA funded institution are they will simply laugh at your empty legal threats. You are a toothless tiger, a whining little bitch and they wont care one bit about your threats. Move over, trans people are here to stay and you best get used to it.

  38. This entire post is defamation. I know the author personally and he does not believe in any of the statements you have attributed to him. Please remove this post.

  39. Mr. Amber, Gallus is anything but a coward — any of us who post against the trannie con and cult get death threats — and many, many women and Lesbians appreciate her work. YOU and Mr. Zander are the joke. And no, you are not real. You are men fetishizing and posing as us. Most people are well aware of what you are. You can’t change how very male you write and think.
    And again, you will NEVER get what you want, which is to be intimate with a Lesbian.

    1. He’s still submitting hate comments. Bev has always said if a woman wants to discover the true nature of a man- set a boundary. Tell him “no”. You’ll soon find out what kind of man he is.

      1. Wow, that is so true, that to find out the true nature of a man, set a boundary!
        Brilliant, BevJo. So true – and succinctly, brilliantly, and beautifully stated.
        Thanks, GM, for passing BevJo’s pearl along to us here.

  40. LOL. Because it’s publicly funded they don’t care if the employees use the health care centre computers to make actionable statements, against a LAWYER. The stupid. It burns.

  41. Good point about how you find out all about men when you use the word “no.” It reveals their true nature every time. Say no to trans who invade lesbian spaces, and they act like every other man I have ever met who is anti-lesbian and anti-feminist.
    So if they really were women, they would know this, but since they aren’t, they always respond in predictable patriarchal fashion.

    1. That’s why Men regardless whether they are twanz or not, can’t accept the word “No”. It’s something that is very hard and difficult for them to do.

  42. Mr. Amber,
    Gallusmag is not a coward. The only insecure coward that i see is you. Any of us who is against the twanz cult and con is always on the receiving end of Male inborn death threats and intimidation. You and every twanz are a clear and present danger to Women, Lesbian and Intersex people. And oh btw, you will never, ever be female no matter how many surgeries or how many hormones are pumped into your system. No amount of surgery or hormones will ever make you a woman. You are nothing more than a Man who likes to fetishize and pretend to be a woman.
    Also, No lesbian, women or intersex person will ever, ever accept you as one of us because you are nothing like us and you will never ever be like us. It’s people like Gallusmag who stand up to twanz cult and con.

  43. Yep, it’s true. A man’s brain short-circuits when a woman tells him no. It’s considered insubordination due to men’s master/slave mentality and the master’s sense of entitlement to lord over the slave. Men react predictably. Much like how the slave owner reacts when a slave says no or a father reacts when a child tells him no. He will power over slave/woman/child and re-establish his dominance and control.

    1. Lucky, what you wrote is so true. In fact, I think this further proves that the master/slave relationship is *more* than a mentality, it is still reality. Women are still male property, and everyone knows it. Especially men, who, in turn, let women know it if we dare rattle our chains or question it by saying no.
      Which is why most women never question it. They never, ever say no. Because somewhere deep down, they know they will be threatened if they do.

      1. And that’s why almost no women ever assert the right to claim womyn-only space. Not only do they know they will be labeled man-haters and socially or physically threatened or ostracized, they are convinced that it is cruel and unfair to men, at their own expense.

  44. Oh look! Amber “whining little bitch” and “Anti-defamation” have taken it on the road!
    “This post is defamatory. I know the author personally and he does not believe in any of the statements you have attributed to him. Please remove this post.
    How is this defamatory? I am quoting the author. If the author doesn’t believe what they wrote, they should remove their post. I am expressing an opinion about what they’ve shared.
    The linked entry begins by describing the remainder of the article as behaviors that “go beyond mere ignorance of trans issues and land squarely in the category of harming others.” The title also identifies these behaviors as “abusive.” The author then goes on to specifically target lesbians (“particularly if you id as lesbian”) and equates “refusing to date trans women, especially those who identify with having cocks” with an abusive behavior or something that “denigrates” trans women.
    As a queer trans women, I think I ought to have the right to express an opinion about issues that allegedly “denigrate” me. I object to compulsory penis gratification, and reserve the right to refuse to date anyone without being labeled abusive. In the second linked article, the author has associated this belief with being a “right wing, conservative, lesbian-identified hate monger” (their words–I didn’t just make that up).
    I have seriously no interest in personal attacks against anyone (I don’t even know the author’s name or anything–which as you can see are not posted here). I will however stand up for the right to say NO to penis, regardless of who or what its attached to. Please deconstruct your trans misogyny and unwillingness to validate women’s opinions.
    POSTED BY SEAFLY | JANUARY 11, 2012, 2:30 AM
    “Your points are correct. I am however, deeply offended that you would reference Gender Trender as a source for a quote. They are sick, evil people who practice the most extreme degree of transphobia imaginable. I wonder what you are doing their, reading their lies and evil deceipt. I am very disappointed in you personally for this.
    POSTED BY AMBER | JANUARY 13, 2012, 5:57 AM
    I agree with what they had to say about this particular issue, which is why they are quoted here. Forcing someone to be romantically available for penis is the most extreme misogyny imaginable. If another trans blogger had taken this issue on, I may have quoted them instead. I’m still unaware of anyone else in any community reporting on this issue or the bullying tactics being used to quiet disagreement.
    POSTED BY SEAFLY | JANUARY 13, 2012, 11:09 AM”

  45. This was exactly my experience with one “trans woman” who got very stalker-ish with me for a time.
    He was only partially transitioned (still possessing penis) but had decided two things:
    1) That he felt himself to be a “lesbian” now; and that
    2) I should have no objection to being his “lesbian lover” because the two of us would be “perfect” together.
    Ummmm. No.
    Of course, he flew into a rage and made dark hints about committing suicide when I said “thanks, but no thanks” to his fantasy/offer.
    There is nothing wrong with a woman or a man — gay, straight or bi — NOT being attracted to Charles Bronson in a dress and lipstick. If you are, great. If you’re not? So be it.
    People need to stop reading political incorrectness into lack of sexual attraction to “trans women”. The heart knows what the heart desires.

  46. Slowly it gets more and more fascist and unethical. I’m concered about this. And yet the trans community remains silent with rare exceptions. There is something fucking wrong here. It’s things like this which makes me believe that this community turns into a religious like sect. “Do it or your’e an evil transphobe!!”, “If you disagree we will stalk ands harass you.”

    1. That’s like that within the intersex community as well. The vast majority were silenced by the trans community with the rare exceptions like me who speak up and against the trans community’s inclusion in the intersex community. It makes me believe that the trans community acts more like a religious sect than a community and it makes me believe that they want to wipe off the planet, women, lesbian and intersex people. It seems like if your against them, they resort to stalking, harassing, bullying and even threatening you online. Even their so called transsupporters get in on it as well and enable their delusions. I have spoken out against trans inclusion within intersex space, but instead got attacked, harassed, stalked, bullied and even threatened at times for speaking out against the trans community.

  47. To be honest, I think this Xander is a bit of a “handmaiden of the patriarchy”, that is, a female who works on behalf of males, so the males in question come out smelling of roses. It happens all the time in politics. Get a female to do some unsavoury work that you know will be unpopular, and then when the shit hits the fan the males she was working on behalf are nowhere to be seen.
    This article specifically benefits trans women (i.e males i.e men). It doesn’t particularly benefit trans men at all (i.e women). So I find it extraordinary that a trans man is doing trans women’s dirty work for them. Well, not extraordinary. More like, unsurprising, given what I know of men.

  48. I’m sorry to hear that, Ashura. Yes, I agree, it is sad and must stop. May I ask what country that is, please? Thanks for your post and for expressing your views.

  49. For those of you who are too young to know or remember:
    During the Black Power movement, there was a subset of black men who pressured white women into having sex with them using the tired old “if you don’t want to have sex with me, you must be a racist.”
    During the anti-Vietnam War movement, women heard “you should want to have sex with me, because life is short and I could be drafted tomorrow.”
    During the so-called Sexual Revolution, it was “if you don’t want to have sex with me, you must be an uptight, frigid prude.”
    With men in political movements, it’s always something.
    So now the “trans women” with intact male bodies are saying to lesbians “if you don’t want to have sex with me, you must be transphobic.”
    Whatever, dudes. Smart, self-respecting women don’t fall for manipulative crap. Maybe women just don’t want to have sex with YOU. Build your character by learning to graciously and respectfully accept the word “no”.

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