The Transgender Bathroom Fantasy

So what’s all this fuss then about Transgender people and bathrooms? Seems every few weeks there’s a different “Bathroom Bill” being proposed in some state or municipality or another. Laws designed to allow males to use women’s restrooms and locker rooms and other designated female private spaces, as long as the males either perform some sort of female sex-role stereotype (wearing make-up or clothing gendered-female for example) or who simply claim to “feel like a woman inside” (what transgenders call a psychological “gender identity”).
Transgenders call this “using the bathroom they identify with” which means that facilities which are sex-segregated for privacy and female safety from male predation should be disregarded in cases where males are willing to claim that they, at least sometimes, “feel like a woman inside”.
What possible justification can males have for entering female spaces that are set up for female protection against males, and are not even designed to physically accommodate male biology during elimination? And make no mistake- at least 80% of male transsexuals now choose to forgo “sex change surgery” and elect to retain their male anatomy. And 100% of male transgenders and those under the transgender umbrella (transgenders, cross-dressers, femulators) retain their original male anatomy without alteration. Stating the obvious here but: Male restrooms have urinals. Devices designed for male-bodied people to urinate in. So why would males who appear superficially female want to use women’s restrooms that aren’t even designed for their bodies, instead of say, educating the public and doing activism around the reality that some males choose to appear female, and that these males may also use restrooms like any other person born male?
The answer is that gaining access to spaces set aside for female privacy is a huge male fantasy. I’ve done a few posts on this topic in the past and I can tell you that finding serious articles or news reports on the subject is difficult because there is so much porn around the topic of male transgenders in ladies restrooms. Just google “Tranny restroom” or “crossdresser restroom” if you don’t believe me. Transgender males like the one in this video (don’t worry, this one is safe for work) film their excitement at being in the female restroom in female disguise, and upload them to YouTube for other transgenders to enjoy their thrilling conquest of female intimate spaces.
Sometimes that conquest involves excitedly flashing their crotches at random women who are simply trying to take a leak, as seen in this one. “In this particular video Fanny greets an innocent woman in the ladies room and tells her a surprise menu option she won’t soon forget.”

 Oh the thrill of it all! The sounds of the unsuspecting females talking amongst themselves, washing their hands at the sinks, urinating! It’s total wank material for these guys. There are volumes of written testimonials, fantasy fictions, and video links on internet sites and publications catering to the male transgender audience. Entering female spaces is an entire subgenre of pornography, created for transgender consumers. It’s a huge sexualized fantasy for male transgenders. Same as it is for males who are not transgender, which is why we see thousands of men arrested for hiding cameras in female restrooms and locker rooms for example. The difference is that transgenders and males who are willing to claim they “feel like females” can indulge this predilection legally in places where transgender bathroom bills have been passed.

Of course this isn’t what transgender activists claim when they are lobbying for “bathroom bills”. They get bathroom bills passed by using the political capital of the gay and lesbian movement and frame the issue as one of “LGBT Rights”. They claim that males who superficially appear female, or who are willing to claim a “gender identity” have a legal right to bypass sex-segregated legal protections for females. And they frame this “right” as one of safety. Safety for males from the potential violence of other males. They claim that males are so overwhelmingly sexually violent by nature that males who gender-bend must seek refuge in female spaces to avoid the potential for that violence from other males. But the truth is that men are not overwhelmingly sexually violent to other males, even males who adopt visual cues coded female. All a transsexual male in a men’s room needs to do to diffuse potential confrontation is abandon his falsetto and say in his male voice “Don’t ask”, or “Mind your own business” to any other male who may challenge his presence in the men’s room, and the other dudes leave him alone.
Men aren’t afraid of other men in the restroom. They are not afraid of male sexual predators. Why would they be? Statistically, the overwhelmingly target for male sexual predation is females. The only thing males are afraid of in men’s rooms are homosexuals. Men are not afraid of females. Or males who look female. They’re worried about someone thinking they’re queer and coming onto them the way men come onto women. That’s called homophobia. And the only bathroom incidents involving male on male violence have been those involving homophobia- fear of gay males. There has never been a single incident cited of a hate crime in a male restroom against a male transgender. Not one. Which is astounding.

The only “bathroom incidents” involving male transgenders are related to males entering female-designated spaces.
According to widely respected transsexual activist and researcher Lynn Conway, one in 500 people are transsexual. Not transgender, but transsexual (those who live 24/7/365 performing the opposite sex role). Many feel Conway’s numbers are overly conservative. According to the HRC, perhaps one in 100 individuals in the US population are transgender. That is over 3 million people in the US alone. 69 million worldwide. The Gender Centre calculates the number of people with “intense transsexualism” at one in 250. That is 28 million people worldwide.
28 million people who navigate the process of medically and/or surgically changing their social appearance from one sex to the other. Again, not including the vastly larger number of others who fall under the “transgender umbrella” such as transgenders, cross-dressers, genderqueers, gender-benders, and others who identify themselves as transgender. According to a study released from Finland last week, the number of people requesting hormone “gender reversal” is increasing by 100% Annually.
And they all pee every single day. Several times a day in fact.
The exact numbers don’t even matter. Whether there are 69 million transsexuals or 28 million transsexuals or 14 million, or ten million, or half a million, or half a dozen, we would expect to see some instances of this supposed danger to male transgenders who use male restrooms. I mean, this is why transgender activists have lobbied for the right to enter in spaces set aside with laws designed to protect females from male predation. So where is the predation on male transgenders in male facilities? Where are the hate crimes against male-bodied people who use male facilities? They simply don’t exist. There are none. Out of 69 million, or 28 million, or 14 million, or whatever number of transgenders you want to trust, where are the victims of discrimination for using the facilities one is already legally entitled to use? Such cases should be easily cited, should be widespread, considering that female rights to sex-segregated spaces are being eliminated due to them. Where are they?
Even a cursory internet search can pull up tens of thousand of incidents of male predation against females in areas such as restrooms and changing rooms which are legally sex-segregated for female privacy. Hidden cameras, peeping toms, etc. But one can find no such incidents of male predation against male transgenders in male spaces. Not a one. And there should be thousands, considering we are overriding laws which protect females. Or at least a hundred. Or some.
Americans are protected by Title VII against sex discrimination: discrimination against folks who don’t conform to sex role stereotypes. So males who are discriminated against while using male facilities can sue, the same way females can sue for sex discrimination. So where are the cases? Out of millions of transgender people there must be at least a handful of cases of males who have been discriminated against by being prevented from using male facilities because they looked female? No. There are none. Not a single fucking one. Simply put, no one has had a problem with male transgenders using male facilities. There have been no hate crimes, no epidemic of sex discrimination against males who are transgender. I can’t find any. And if there were we would hear about it, believe me. There would be a “Transgender Day of Bathroom Remembrance” outlining each and every incident. But there isn’t. There are no such incidents.
Where is the evidence that there is a statistically significant problem of crossdressed men/transsexual males/other transgender males suffering predation in male restrooms/male spaces? It doesn’t exist.
Please show us the statistically based study (or studies) that backs transgender claims regarding how dangerous men are to transgenders in men’s public restrooms/men’s spaces.
Where is the solid evidence that there has been an uptick in violence or harassment –or any hate crimes whatsoever, ever– against male transgenders in the male spaces where males are protected against sex discrimination?
There isn’t any.
There’s nothing.
Just a bunch of porn.
There is no demonstrable need for male-bodied people to use female facilities, regardless of how well they conform – or not– to gendered sex-roles.

58 thoughts on “The Transgender Bathroom Fantasy

  1. I knew that there would be a backlash when Janet Jackson did that music video with her standing up to take a wee at the urinal.
    Malfunction junction, what is your malfunction?
    From my clubbin’ days, the drag queens were bullies back then when there were fewer legal rights to be in our can.
    Be warned, they do not travel alone, where you see one, there are many more.
    Good post Gallus the Magnificant.

  2. Just a bunch of porn.
    And they must have it at any and all cost.
    Also, I just wanted to mention that I have always been widely ignored when I have been forced to use the men’s loo on the (many, many) occassions I’ve had to hold my nose and do my business and not because I “pass” as a man so well (lol) but because I am obviously a woman and therefore not a threat.

  3. Holy shit that video with the dudes in the McDonald’s bathroom? What the hell? It’s quite obvious these men only get their basic ideas of female behavior from watching movies. Being as I’ve used women’s restrooms my whole life, I feel comfortable in saying that those men have no clue how to behave like “women.” Seriously, flashing his crotch to some strange lady? What the living fuck?! I hope that lady managed to get out of there before they accosted her further. Women just don’t act like that in public bathrooms. It’s just so ridiculous! I’m actually really upset for that lady because I know if that had happened to me I would have been a wreck the entire rest of the day. Just as messed up as if men in biker outfits had come in and done the same. Or if a man cat called me on the street and then followed me for a couple of blocks.
    It’s just not fucking cute! It’s not even fucking funny! It’s so blatant and they’re so fucking proud of it! I don’t know why this video seems to piss me off more than any of the others. Maybe it’s because it’s right there, filming the act for everyone to see? Maybe it’s they’re smug, laughing faces as they assault that woman while she is alone? Maybe it’s just one of those days when justifiable rage comes easy to me?
    And would any woman take a video of just the sounds of the women’s bathroom (or take video footage in the restroom AT ALL)?! How is that BEING a woman in any way?! It really is just a bunch of porn and men showing their power over women and their spaces. If they could just go in, pee, and get out it like FABs do in the restroom it would be one thing, but it seems fairly obvious that for many of these men they are in it simply for the “thrill” and “power” of it. They wanna sit there and ENJOY it. They wanna PLAY in it and be just like one of the LADEES. *seethe*

    1. I have looked at a lot of TransUmbrella, female-minstreling, fetishistic demeaning crap today from men masquerading-as-women, but that one takes the prize.

    2. Pathetic bullying behaviour, still need to threaten and frighten women to feel powerful don’t you lads? Notice the prick doesn’t let go of her hand for a while so she couldn’t leave. Then after they flashed her they posted her humiliation online! What a fucking male thing to do! This video angered me most of all too, they treat the bathroom and the women in it like their playthings.

    3. Yes, pmsrhino, that one really pissed me off, too. If someone flashed me like that in the women’s restroom, I’d be calling the police. I don’t care if there were two of them, they filmed it and that would be police evidence.
      It is becoming clearer all the time that this is not about safety for trans. It is about perversion.
      It’s hard to understand the mindset of these crazies. I guess they have a lot of money so they get to spend all their time and money dressing up and harrassing women in the restroom. She tried to be polite and they flashed her. I’d be bellowing at the top of my lungs for the manager and the police. They count on politeness.
      Pricks! You can tell that they still have them, too.

      1. They really do count on the politeness, don’t they? These two videos have shocked me, and made very clear how this trans thing is all about titillation. YUCK.
        Get OUT of my bathroom, you pervs. GET OUT.
        Thank you Gallus Mag. The work you do bringing this to our attention is so important.

  4. There would be a “Transgender Day of Bathroom Remembrance” outlining each and every incident. But there isn’t. There are no such incidents.
    Absolutely. We would never hear the end of “teh Transgender Day of Bathroom Remembrance”. Ad nauseum.
    And what SarSea said, the few times I have had to use the Men’s bathroom in an emergency, and there has been a dude in there? They just give you a sideways glace with a raised eyebrow and shrug it off. Maybe that is what our dear trannies are worried about, a raised eyebrow??? *teh horrors*
    The times that I have come across males – crossdressers and drag queens – in the ladies room, they are anything but subtle about it. It’s a thrill, a novelty. And they are always staring at themselves in the mirror with exaggerated preening. Nothing like real women behave, although maybe teenage girls come close.

  5. Good points, GallusMag.
    It is porn, fantasy, and intimidation. If you’re a non threatening person just using the can to go pee, nobody would care. It’s a non issue. A little boy can use the women’s room or a even a disabled kid with a caretaker.They can be males, nobody really cares because there’s no implied threat. Why are they there? They need a safe or accessible place to go pee. They have no other agenda. But some trans, they seem to want to be in there as trans, not as women. They seem to want to make sure everybody knows they’re trans and the implied intimidation that goes along with it. Even the legal aspects of it become bullying, I have a right to be in here and you can’t stop me.

  6. It is probably worth highlighting the stat & link that Tru found, from the previous thread:
    “The vast majority of transgender people do not undergo surgery,” he said. “Eighty percent of transgender women and 95 percent of transgender men do not have the surgery that the health department requires before they’ll change their birth certificate. So, the vast majority of transgender New Yorkers don’t have accurate birth certificates.”
    95% of males – that is a much higher figure than we regularly quote (usually 75-80%), and this 95% figure is coming from tranz, as yet another “poor widdle me” article because they cannot get birth certificates – official documents – changed to perpetuate their fantasies.

    1. Um, I don’t think the 95% of male means what you think it means. I’m pretty sure they mean trans men – i.e. FAB.

      1. Oh, you are probably right. If so, I’ll warrant that most of the F2T’s have had surgery, “top” surgery, just not “bottom” surgery. Having one’s breasts removed doesn’t count, most likely.

      2. Ah yes, I do believe you are right, re-reading it again.
        Still, even they are quoting 80% still packing penis, and that is higher than our general estimates – however, a full count of garden variety of cross-dressers would probably push this much higher.

  7. The most memorable time I was forced to use the men’s room was at a diii-iive bar in Texas and it was Drag Night. There were approximately two audience members (that’d be Chonky ‘n Sea) and all the rest were *performers*.
    Anyway, I go to take a wiz and there are about 475 of them in this one-stall stink-hole and when they saw me they all recoiled and squeeled in unison,
    IT’S A WOMAN!!1!
    And there I am, standing in the doorway shaking my head, rolling my eyes, sighing and moving along to the men’s room which was, of course, deserted. 🙄

  8. A rather apt photo found over at Flickr, on the twanz bathroom fantasy.
    Jokey to them maybe, but well creepy to us. And they wonders why we don’t want them there!

      1. “Or ready to ambush somebody?” Who, pray tell, is this somebody? ‘Cause, you know, I can’t say I feel totally safe with some dude dressed in fish nets sitting in a woman’s restroom stall ready to “pounce.” FFS.

  9. “Maybe that is what our dear trannies are worried about, a raised eyebrow??? *teh horrors*”
    Well yes, if there’s one thing trans women cannot stand, it’s *being* *ignored* or *being* *shrugged* *off* .

  10. Thank you so much, Gallus. I wish to hell every female trannie supporter would see this. I wish all women would see this.
    It is so simple — these pricks are not women in any way, shape, or form. Least of all mentally, emotionally, or spiritually. They hate females, but want to take us over like the man who skinned women to wear their skins. They are so completely male — porn-minded, rape-minded, invasive, disgusting. God, I hate them. And I hate that we can never get away from these worst of all men.

  11. On a more cheerful note, Lierre said I could quote what she wrote me today:
    I demand that my insurance company pay for my surgery to look like a vampire, since that’s what I am inside!
    Just stumbled on this:
    About Us
    Located in central Edmonton, the Pride Centre of Edmonton provides resources, support and programming for the GLBTTIQQ2SAA (Gay, Lesbian, Bisexual, Transgender, Transsexual, Intersex, Queer, Questioning, 2-Spirit, Asexual and Allied) community and its supporters in Edmonton, AB and surrounding areas. The Pride Centre of Edmonton is a CRA registered charity.
    Umm, GLBTTIQQ2SAA? Really? Longer than a phone number. It’s a parody of itself and they don’t even see it. The insanity. The L and the G never went together, except as an uneasy alliance for legal/civil rights, and now this. The identity house of cards has got to crumble at some point.

    1. That just ridiculous. They are delusional, really. This kind of thing proves it. How does one group get so many letters? They are so narcissistic, each speschul snowflake of them.
      I say, just take the L out of it. I want my own identity–Lesbian. I want my own services, my own bathrooms, my own groups. And it does not include them pretending to be who I am and who my sisters are. There are plenty of groups within the Lesbian group. Like there are Butch Lesbians, Femme Lesbians, Older Lesbians, African-American Lesbians, Latina Lesbians, Lesbians with Disabilities, Working-class Lesbians, Urban Poor Lesbians. Really, the list is endless. And each of these groups is much more distinct than those in the alphabet soup. Many of these groups would benefit from distinct services. Where are all the letters for us?
      These men need to stay out of our financially tenuous services. So many of them are rich white self-absorbed males who seem to have nothing better to do with their time than indulge their delusions. If they are afraid to use the bathrooms they should have men’s activists groups to make them safe. They could also do something to stop male violence, human trafficking of women, war, environmental destruction. There’s a lot they could do if they chose with their resources. Maybe it’s just rich white neocon males trying to destroy these services for women. Then they can pay even fewer taxes and have right-wing churches take over all social services. All the while playing dressups and sexually assaulting females like in the McDonald’s video.

    2. Oh, that’s a good idea! I’d like to see the alphabet movement become a lesbian centered one! That would be kind of fun. You could have a whole bunch of letters all your own. Latino Lesbians, Older Lesbians, Urban Lesbians……LOL,I’m liking that idea!

    3. The Kid is having problems logging in to WP so the following comment is hers:
      As I was looking through the mile-long list of The Pride Centre’s, I realizied that Transgendered and Transsexual are two different things, but Pansexuals aren’t good enough to be on the List! 😛

      1. What about the furries? If there is one thing we need to be more inclusive of, it’s yiffing.

  12. They want women’s approval. I’m not sure why, but it seems that way. I think it’s some weird fantasy about having “girlfriends” growing up. You know, that stage where many young girls are obsessed with makeup, clothes, looking good, etc. They think that’s all there is to having “girlfriends.”

    1. At first I thought many wanted approval, too, but the more I look at it, it looks a lot more like intimidation, like a power and control thing. They aren’t seeking women’s validation that they are female, they’re seeking our submissiveness, our acquiescence. Why else demand to be recognized as trans, not as women? Why demand to be allowed in the women’s room as trans, rather then as women who just need to pee? Why the bullying, the threats, the intimidation? This isn’t approval, but rather domination.

    2. Agreed. It’s about domination. They don’t actually want to “be” women. They want to be men that have special rights to dominate women. To quote (former Most Stupid Comment of The Day Winner) Dee Omally: “Trans phobia is Male Phobia”.
      Quoting blogger Cyrsti (sic) Hart: “Can I ask a question? Is it more satisfying to go into public and have people assume that you are a woman -or- is it more satisfying to be recognized as transgendered?
      Answer: both!”

  13. Oh Katie, I really like that. I just got put down by the new friend who was so upset that I dared to talk back to the trannie who kept insutling me at our “Lesbian” group event. That tired idea that we have a narrow world. Well, every time I’m around the mainstream, they are SO boring — when not being offensive. In the Lesbian community, we have infinite variety and more Lesbians than we could ever hope to meet. And yes, I’ll hang out with strong non-Lesbian feminists too.

    1. Yes, like some of the non-Lesbian strong women feminists who would prefer that daughters at Michfest not be flashed by these creeps when they want to take a shower, fer cripes’ sake!

  14. I just have to say how hysterical the photo was on this story! And I often wonder how on earth lesbians got roped into this “trans” cause. I have yet to hear about trans offering anything of value to lesbians, or even respecting us as a culture. But what upsets me is the lack of solidarity lesbians have for each other, and why on earth they side with these trans-female impersonators. Why they allow a male to abuse a lesbian from a stage in a derrogatory song, why there are large groups of lesbians thinking it is ok for male children to come in the Michigan, for trans to come in… it seems that lesbians have the hardest time sticking with the lesbian program of support, power and consistency of purpose. And you get tired of it. You get tired of the het women using us for cheap labor, tired of gay men using up our time… while all the other groups could care less about the welfare and wealth of lesbians. The trans invasion maybe coming to an end, there may be strong pushback on blogs like this.
    Lesbians need to be awake, and it is women who foolishly work on every cause but their own.
    Trans flashing girls at Michigan, yeah, I can just see them doing that!

  15. The GLBT Movement abandoned lesbians a long time ago. Lesbians need to advocate on their own, with allies as we can, but never forgetting that the GLBT Movement is a male-dominated movement.

  16. Yes, Cathy, you are absolutely right. Lesbians are not served purely as lesbians in this male-controlled movement. The most controversical thing you can say is, I want lesbian only space, I do not want to work with men, I’m not interested in being listed as an initial in a movement that actively erases lesbians.
    And now we have butch lesbians being erased by trans, and these horrifying terms “masculine of center” when butch lesbians are proud women.
    Anything to erase powerful lesbians, to deny us our culture and our space, but I believe we are speaking up, and demanding an end to this erasure, and an end to being dominated by malestream gay men.

  17. It’s good to challenge all who try to re-write our history. At the Butch conference, one of the better speakers referred to Lesbian Feminists in the Seventies leaving working with gay men. The truth is that many of us NEVER worked with gay men. Ever. Our separate culture, is again erased.
    On an fb thread recently, a Lesbian said the AIDS epidemic helped Lesbians to come out!!???? She had no awareness of our incredibly strong international Lesbian Feminist movement of the Seventies, with bookstores, coffeehouses, newspapers and journals, bars, etc.? We didn’t need men to come out!
    The beginning of our Lesbian Feminist movement was not that long ago. Men, with far more money and privilege than us, including men claiming to be us, are re-writing our history. Keep spreading the word of what really happened before we are no longer here to tell our story. It is our movement, our people, our culture — so keep the truth about our Lesbian history. Even anti-Separatists wanted our female-only space and events. Most Lesbians still do.

  18. I just read this in an international report on empowering girls through edutation:
    ” Latrines increase enrollment and retention for girls, as well as female teachers.
    Another infrastructure issue is the frequent lack of functional, clean, and separate toilets or latrines for girls and female teachers to use throughout the school day. Particularly during menstruation, this becomes a significant deterrent to girls’ attendance at school, as well as leading to a loss of female teachers. Lack of separate, secure latrines also raises safety concerns for girls when they are forced to share these facilities with male teachers or students.”
    So around the world, lack of safe bathrooms is literally keeping girls out of school–which is keeping them poor and dependent on men. Read the whole report here:
    Feeling the fury against the narcissistic transholes all over again right now…

    1. It’s worth noting that in many non-Western countries, the toilet is situated in the ground. Sit-down toilets are rare in Africa and Asia, meaning that offering privacy by partitioning stalls isn’t as easy in those countries. The stalls have to go straight to the floor to offer real privacy (although, given the intrusion of transpeople into sex-segregated facilities, I would definitely prefer that privacy measure in the West). So I can definitely see why a lack of separate facilities would discourage girls and women from seeking an education.

  19. Yep. Perverts on parade, invading our private spaces, forcing themselves on women and girls from coast to coast and around the globe.
    Meanwhile, so-called “progressive feminists” like Arianna Huffington at the Huffington Post is giving voice to, enabling and encouraging these anti-woman, anti-girl perverts.
    It’s disgusting and very, very distressing to any woman who is a sexual assault survivor who has been stalked or preyed-upon in some way by one of these vile, obsessed, abusive nut-cases.

    1. I also want to mention how odd the caption is in that LA Times piece: “Rodney Kenneth Petersen, 46, allegedly dressed as a woman and attempted to photograph other women using a cellphone hidden in his purse, authorities said. (San Bernardino County Sheriff’s Department / June 24, 2013)” I was struck by “attempted to photograph OTHER women” [emphasis mine] as though being “dressed as” is the same as being. That’s without even unpacking “dressed as a woman” as a nonsense phrase.

  20. “Stating the obvious here but: Male restrooms have urinals. Devices designed for male-bodied people to urinate in.”
    I don’t think men need urinals. They can as well pee sitting down. It’s just not so much fun to them.
    There are women who do not like to sit down on public toilets. No one ever bothered to design something special for them. I wonder why … no, actually, I don’t.
    “There has never been a single incident cited of a hate crime in a male restroom against a male transgender. Not one. Which is astounding.”
    Really? Wow. I would have thought there’s at least some overlap between gay and transgender. Or men would suspect that a crossdressing man is gay.
    Or just, you know, the usual male violence against each other. Men are justified in fearing other men. I just think they should do something against male violence instead of bringing it into women’s spaces.

    1. That was freaking revolting. And their ideas of how women behave in a public bathroom! They think it’s some sort of slumber party of thirteen-year-olds! They fetishize everything.

    2. That is seriously disturbing. My first instinct is to believe that women do their utter best to ignore what other women do in their stall out of respect for their privacy. Anyhow that is what I do. This reminds me of a recent episode of some crime show where the perv gets his thrill by listening to the distress of people calling 911. Thanks for posting the link.

  21. Summary of all incidents that occurred to me as MtT in men’s restroom/locker rooms: men confused about what bathroom they were in, men giving me odd looks, men asking if I “preferred” to use the women’s, and men occasionally making some comments. That’s it. This is Tennessee, mind you. It’s so clearly NOT about safety.
    We men love attention and sympathy, however we get it. Assuredly many MtT believe they are in great danger using the men’s, but one has to wonder how much of the perceived violence is itself part of the fetishization you described. Being a victim of violence and contemplating the outpouring of sympathy and attention one might receive as a result (especially from women) is not an uncommon male submission fantasy.

    1. Of course, you’re right. Reading you I am reminded of a gay man who I used to buy used southern rock and blues tapes from. Amongst a lot of other gaggy stuff he shared with me (another way women are sexually harassed, he decided I was cool and would just love to hear this crap) he confided how he fantasized about being violently raped by a particular Black rocker.
      So few get it: it’s a sexual fetish.

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